Wrapping Up 2022 with Incoterms Strategies

*Machine operated script*
Arthur O’Meara 0:00
Incoterms do not address transfer of ownership from seller to buyer. People make the assumption that if I as the seller, transfer possession to you, and if I transfer risk to you, you own the goods and you don’t.

Annik 0:16
Hi, everyone. Are you loving our podcast? Do you feel like watching instead of just listening to our episodes, we have started to share our podcast videos on our trade community, www dot crowd. Dot trade, where you can view the complete show, comment and carry conversations with your peers. We have built a trade community around our training courses and different resources for you to collaborate and gain the knowledge you are looking for. Head over to crowd. Dot trade and register for your free account. Let’s start trading.

Andy 0:45
Well, Lalo, it is coming to the end of the year, and we’ve had a phenomenal run so far. We can’t say we’ve been going for the whole year. I guess we’ve been going what now four months, five months that we’ve been

Lalo 1:02
August. So, yeah, so August, so, yeah, yeah. So five months. And

Andy 1:07
remember, December, yeah, five months, yeah. Just like, Hey, I’m part of that, you know, down home, school system here, 123,

Lalo 1:18
I know I have that same, same problem. I can’t go past tense.

Andy 1:23
Well, I gotta say, you know, we keep emphasizing it, man. To our listeners, y’all have been fantastic. The surprise, I guess, for us, as we’ve been firing up, is, not only are we trending up here in the US, and we’re continuing to do so, but in Europe, oh, my gosh. Oh, it’s, it’s like we’ve got some, both of you and I think, have some international contacts, global contacts that seem to be interested in what we’re doing, and they’re spreading the word out there. So, but I had an interesting conversation with somebody just yesterday that was interested in our podcast. Actually, I talked to him two days ago, and they talked to me again yesterday, and they have forwarded the link to our podcast to several of their family members and friends, because they’re like, hey, they’re all interested in this logistics realm and all that. So it’s very humbling. I got to take fantastic,

Lalo 2:21
right? And then earlier, I would say, a couple of weeks ago, we published our first Spanish show, all in Spanish, and that one went really well. To be honest with you, it took off and did really good. The next day we did the English version, which also did good. But I was really happy to see that our Spanish show trended really well in Mexico. And so, yeah, I mean, who knows what we’ll do next? I mean,

Andy 2:49
well, I don’t speak Spanish, Spanish, the Spanish I that I know I can’t repeat publicly. So that’s one of those. But that all said, Hey, listen, folks, if especially to your Spanish speaking counterparts, and if you’re doing business in Mexico, that is a fantastic show to listen to. So make a point to do that. Yeah, well, actually, it kind of goes a hand in hand as far as what we were talking on. That is what we’re going to be talking about today. I gotta tell you. And what we’re getting into today is the proverbial term Incoterms. If you don’t know what that is, international term, commercial terms of sales, excuse me, and And of that, it’s like in just a three letter code, it can determine who’s responsible for what? The buyer, the seller, the shipper, the exporter, the importer, yada yada. So we’re going to get into some good discussions, but there’s always a lot of confusion with you know, because I’ll ask somebody, as we’ve consulted and talked to folks, what are your terms? And they’ll go, oh, net 30, or net 15, or whatever, or not, not payment

Lalo 4:06
terms, or all the fobs, right? Yeah, yeah.

Andy 4:09
Well, everything’s FOB Yeah. So, well, I’m we have somebody that I’m looking forward to him giving us some guidance here, because, you know, as I’ve said, it’s like I’d screw up a two car parade when it comes to some of this stuff, and hopefully I can get through and he can put me on the straight and narrow when it comes to the Incoterms and how to approach it. But Lila, once you introduce our guest today,

Lalo 4:38
sure. So we have on our show. His name is Arthur O’Meara, and he is certified by the ICC, by the way, who writes, or, you know, who owns, he’ll tell us better, the Incoterms, amongst other stuff. But he also teaches for global Training Center. He does several courses for. He is our He is an author. His name is Arthur, but he’s an author.

Andy 5:06
Say that three times.

Lalo 5:09
Sorry. Tongue tied. There a little so anyway, he is an author of Incoterms books as well, and he’ll let us know a little bit more about that. But even though just so we can cover the content if we do skip over some of that, not to worry again. Everybody knows to check the show notes, because it’s there’s a bio of him, and, you know, links to his profile and whatnot. You know, whatever else that we might find of his will link to that. But anyway, but Arthur, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for joining us, and very last show of the year, we’re happy to have you. And maybe we can go through some stuff that people can prepare for 2023 anything you might have seen in 2022 that might have been problems. First of all, let me also say this. We do need to clarify something people always call global Training Center. Hey, when are you going to have the Incoterms, 2023 training or Incoterms, 2022 it’s like no. So anyway, let’s start with something like that.

Arthur O’Meara 6:12
Okay, okay, so let’s start with Incoterms, 2023 versus Incoterms, 2020 and I think what we need to get. Because if you Google Incoterms 2023 things pop up, right? Yes, they do. And verily, it’s just people in marketing who are like, let’s just put it out there. But Incoterms are published every few years. Nothing in writing states how often it must be. But the latest version is Incoterms 2020, so here we are, end of 2022 just about to embark on 2023 and we’re still the latest version is Incoterms, 2020 and the previous version was Incoterms 2010 and then Incoterms 2000 and Incoterms 1990 and there’s nothing in

Andy 6:53
writing. They try and do it every 10 years. Is the frequency is where the ICC tries, by the way, let me. Let me stop for a second and again, welcome Arthur. Oh, thank you for those that heard ICC, that stands for International Chamber of Commerce. It’s actually headquartered in Paris, France, and it is the entity that has the copyrights and is who originally generates, if you went through different people that contribute and publishes the actual Incoterms, so they’re the ones that have the standard out there. But then since that, there’s also a lot of supportive things. And I, you know, quite frankly, Arthur, as we’re going through this, I’m going to tell you Incoterms with the information that’s initially out there, and you read through it, it’s clear as mud. So it’s like, you’re going to have to help us here. So it’s like,

Arthur O’Meara 7:46
okay, I can summarize it very quickly. First of all, let me, let me state Andy that you’re, you’re 100% correct. Incoterms is an acronym. It stands for international commerce terms, and there is an appropriate way to write it, and that’s for the capital I, and the rest of the letters are lowercase. One of my pet peeves is, you know, the capital inco dash terms and no, it’s one word, capital I. The rest of the word is lowercase. Got to put the little r in the circle. It is an internationally registered trademark as well. Yes, the International Chamber of Commerce in Paris publishes these and let me give it to you in one sentence, International Chamber of Commerce. So the Incoterms represent shorthand for identifying the transfer of risk and possession from seller to buyer. That’s it. That’s it. Okay. There is a lot of misinformation out there. There’s a lot of misunderstanding out there. There are a lot of things that Incoterms do not address. People try to tie them into the Incoterms. It doesn’t work. It makes things a little bit sloppy. But when I talk about risk and possession, risk means responsibility for the condition of the goods during the move. So at some point, Andy, if I’m going to, if I’m going to sell to you, I’m going to be responsible for the goods up to a certain point, and then you pick up responsibility after that point. And the identification of that point is defined by the Incoterms. And then possession. Well, let’s talk about possession. We have to talk about possession. When I, when I say possession, I don’t mean physical possession. I mean I don’t own an airplane, okay? And I don’t own a container ship, but if I’m going to sell it to you, I’m going to have to hire a company with a truck, maybe hire a company with an airplane. And when I hire these agents to move the goods, these agents become my legal representative. So as long as the goods are in the possession of my agent. They’re in my legal possession, but they’re not in my physical possession. And at some point, possession is going to transfer from my agent to your agent, which means it transfers from me to you and and that’s going to be defined by by the Incoterms rule that is used between seller and buyer. That’s

Andy 9:58
it. As you’re going through this. Let me say this, especially for those, is like, if you’re at an executive level, middle management to upper management, one of the things I want to reach out to you here, this may be one of those, is like, Oh man, this is not really what I want to get into or whatever. Don’t touch that dial yet. Here’s the thing, from an executive level, too often, your own bureaucracy of your company, people are creatures of habit, and they can default to the wrong Incoterm and when it starts, when you’re dealing with an international transaction of some kind of a sale, even if there’s not a sale involved, it’s just a movement of goods from one location to another. There’s going to be appropriate Incoterms for that. But here’s what’s important at an executive level, you need to be looking at this, because you can lose out in a international trade or international court of law on a transaction if the wrong Incoterm is utilized, because you can have a contract negotiated and certain people are supposed to be following through with certain responsibilities, Arthur, as you just mentioned, and yet at the same time, the paperwork has a different transaction Incoterm on or whatever. That changes it because that international transaction is for that shipment is tied to the paperwork, the bill of lading, the commercial invoice, maybe a letter of instruction or whatever else. And if you could supersede your contract with what’s on that paperwork for that international transaction. So it’s important from an executive level that as you’re looking at this, you don’t need to necessarily understand all the minutia here, but what you do need to do is ask the questions of your accounting folks, your purchasing folks, and especially your compliance folks, and do a review of some of that. And it’s like, what should be the proper eco terms? We can get into that Arthur on some of this, but what about some of the things in approaching here? We can talk about, you know, the proper things one way or another. But let’s just go right to something. What do you see as one of the, shall we say, most common misused abuses or misuses of an income term

Arthur O’Meara 12:32
Sure, title transfer, okay, ownership Incoterms do not address transfer of ownership from seller to buyer. People make the assumption that if I as the seller, transfer possession to you, and if I transfer risk to you, you own the goods and you don’t. And so it very well may be that I may be responsible for goods I don’t own, or you may be responsible for goods you don’t possess. Incoterms do not address title transfer. Never have. Never will. Title transfer must be addressed separately in your terms and conditions. And people get confused when they think about the transfer of possession and risk, and they equate it with a transfer of title completely separate conversations, because generally, transfer of title is associated with payment for the goods. Incoterms will not deal with payment for the goods. The only thing the Incoterms say is, if I as the seller do what I’m supposed to do, you, as the buyer are obligated to pay for the goods. How and when you pay for the goods? Is a separate conversation. Now this comes into play when we look at where the goods reside on your books or on my books, all right, and so we’ve got to look at the ownership and of risk. And can we quantify that in our either in our landed cost or when we build a sale price, right? Because the name of the game is to maximize profit here. And the old school way of thinking was, hey, hey, hey, I’m in the business of making widgets. I make all my suppliers bring the goods to me. I make all my customers pick the goods up at my door. And you are leaving money on the table when you do that. Because in today’s very small world, the companies that succeed are the companies are that are best at moving goods and managing risk. And I don’t think I need to, I don’t think I can overstate the importance of managing risk in 2020 2021, and 2022 when our supply chain basically exploded.

Andy 14:45
I mean, well, let’s give some scenarios here is like, because you’re going down a really good road

Annik 14:51
here. Hi everyone. Are you loving our podcast? Do you feel like watching instead of just listening to our episodes? We have started to share our podcast videos on our trade community. Www dot crowd dot trade, where you can view the complete show, comment and carry conversations with your peers. We have built a trade community around our training courses and different resources for you to collaborate and gain the knowledge you are looking for. Head over to crowd dot trade and register for your free account. Let’s start trading.

Andy 15:20
Let’s just say a factory again. You know, China has been a very common one. Vietnam’s the next, you know, big growth thing. Taiwan would be another one. So let’s talk and give a scenario where there is a bulk of widgets that a factory in Asia is, and it could be in Europe as well. It doesn’t matter. But we’ll just say Asia right now. And let’s just use Taiwan as the scenario that they are loading up a containers that are put onto a ship heading to the US for distribution across the US. And in that is that, as they’re going through, you know, one of the most common Incoterms that’s used is FOB free on board. What does that mean? I mean, it’s that kind of stuff and all that. And so why don’t we talk through the most common uses? And then I’m gonna, I’d like to throw a couple of exceptions at you and say, Now, what about this? And what should they be looking at? Okay,

Arthur O’Meara 16:25
okay, FOB, one of my favorite subjects. Americans love to run around going, FOB, FOB, FOB, and right. And for domestic transactions in the United States, that’s perfectly acceptable. We have the Uniform Commercial Code in our UCC. We have American domestic trade terms, and one of them is FOB, and there are six variations of FOB, multimodal transportation, domestic use as well. Couldn’t be more different from the Incoterms FOB. Now, the Incoterms FOB, very specifically, is intended for movement by ocean. Most people know that, but what they don’t realize is, if your goods are moving on a container, you really should not be using FOB. You should be using FCA instead. And so the misuse of FOB, here’s the problem. Andy, if you’ve been in your job for a while, pretty soon you get to a point where any problem that lands on your desk, you can fix it with a phone call or an email. No one has to call the lawyers and dig up the paperwork. And if the paperwork is wrong and it’s been wrong for years, it doesn’t matter, because I just pick up the phone, I call you. You say, Yeah, I know what you meant. And I say, Yeah, I know what you meant. We fix it. We move on. The paperwork is wrong forever, and then one day we can’t fix it. And now we dig up the paperwork and it says FOB, and the arbiters have to try to figure out what we intended, because our intentions are not reflected in our paperwork, right, right? And so theoretically, let’s just say that you and I did some business. I’m in Taiwan, you’re in the United States. I’m selling to you under Incoterms FCA. We load up a bunch of containers, and the container ship is attacked by a sea monster halfway across. I mean, it could happen.

Andy 18:06
That’s one of the exceptions I’m going to throw because it has happened where, as we’ve seen, there have been, believe it or not, container ships that have collided in good ocean. I’m like, Oh, I must have been foggy or something. I don’t know. Secondly, there’s been fires that have broken out, and they’ve had to literally dump some of the containers off to try and protect the rest, not only the ship, but then some of the containers storms, whatever, some of the things going in, or the ship itself has gone down, but there’s been a lot of exceptions. So okay, so I’ve got containers of widgets, and you’re selling to me, and let’s just say that the containers now with our goods in this transaction, have gone overboard.

Arthur O’Meara 18:57
Okay? Now if I sold to you under FCA, guess what? Risk transfers from me to you in Taiwan. All right, you own the risk. Now, what if you and I have negotiated a deal where you get net 90 I’m giving you very generous payment terms. The goods are going to arrive probably at your location before you even pay for them, before you even own them. So the goods are going to stay on my books all the way until they get to your receiving doc. They’re going to be on my books, but you’re going to own the risk, and consequently, who has to clean up the mess? Well, under FCA, risk transfers from seller to buyer in the seller’s country, and so the buyer owns the risk. And if the containers go overboard, well, the buyer’s got to clean up the mess, even though the buyer doesn’t really own the goods.

Andy 19:52
Okay? So as soon as the carrier who’s transporting those goods takes possession of that container. Or risk now transfer. Well, that means that if there’s a problem along the way, Hey, where’s my container? Whatever the buyer is responsible for tracing that, or reaching out to the carrier, or filing a claim, or saying, What do you mean? My containers in, you know, in the ocean, whatever, those kinds of things. So that’s where I wanted to clarify. If I got that correct,

Arthur O’Meara 20:21
you’re right. You do. You do so in our example, when that container backs up to my shipping dock, as soon as those goods are loaded into that container for my shipping dock, boom, risk transfers from me to you, okay? And at that point, possession transfers as well. Remember, because although you’re in the United States, you’ve hired a company who’s hired a company who’s hired a trucker in Taiwan. That trucker is an agent of an agent of an agent of you, and so now the goods are in your legal possession the minute they’re loaded onto that truck in Taiwan. Yeah, you may not own the goods. You may I don’t know that’s a separate conversation. The thing here is that, you know, like I said, Americans love to run around saying, FOB, FOB, FOB. It’s just we’ve gotten away with it for decades because we have these American domestic trade terms. They don’t have them in Mexico, they don’t have them in Canada. They don’t have them anywhere else, except here in the United States and and if you, if you, if you think about it, on the very cover of the book for the Incoterms, it says trade terms for international and domestic use. Incoterms can be used domestically just as easily as they can be used internationally. Let’s think about this. If you and I are in Europe, all right, let’s just say you’re in France. I’m in Germany. We do some business. They share a border. That is absolutely an international transaction, because we are in different countries, but we are in the European Union, which is a customs zone. So if you ask the trucker, the trucker is going to say, No, that’s a domestic transaction. He just, he goes, he doesn’t stop at the border, right? Operationally, it’s a domestic transaction, but legally, it’s an international transaction. There is no export or import customs clearance. So let’s, let’s think about this, is there really a lot of difference between a German and French transaction, as between one, say, Illinois to Wisconsin? No, there’s no customs clearance. And so, so we you can use Incoterms domestically, because the thing about import and export clearance in the Incoterms is it says when applicable. So if I’m responsible for export customs clearance, I am when applicable, and there is not applicable domestically. So we can use Incoterms domestically as well. It’s done all the

Andy 22:39
time, all right, so let’s take this from another standpoint. Is that, again, let’s take a air cargo move right? You’ve got now a container of freight that’s moving air cargo. And obviously the container for aircraft is going to be much smaller than that of a 20 or 40 floater for ocean, but let’s say we got a 5000 pound container that’s going on a aircraft and all of that, and we have that in this same scenario traditionally. What would you recommend as far as some of the Incoterms there?

Arthur O’Meara 23:15
Well, let’s think about that for a minute. All right, let’s go back and play with FCA. Okay, we have to remember that when we discuss Incoterms, they come in two parts. There is the three letter designation, FCA, and then there is the named place that occurs after FCA. So I can sell to you FCA, my my factory, or I can sell to FCA port of export, and if you and I are going to be doing business by air freight, maybe I get better domestic trucking rates than your forwarder. And you would prefer to pick up the goods at, I’m sorry, pick up is the wrong word. You would prefer that I bring the goods to the port of export, the airport. Yeah. Yeah, right. So at that point, rather than me loading the goods onto your truck, I have to make the goods available to you, ready for unloading, right? So that means my trucks going to back up to the airport, ready for unloading, and you’re going to pick up the goods here, because you happen to get very good freight rates by air. And so you said, no, no, I’m going to move the goods. I’m going to pick them up in your country. They’re going to move going to move on my contract. Yeah, and so risk would then transfer at the port of export, rather than at my place. Now, the problem here is that the United States is a big country, and there’s a big difference between selling something FCA Chicago and FCA Miami and FCA Los Angeles, and the pre carriage involved can significantly change the sale price to an American exporter who’s selling goods, you know, to their customer under FCA in the United States, we have four time zones alone, just in the continental United States, right? And. So and if you’re talking ocean freight, if you have a factory on the east coast of the United States, right, and you’re going to sell me five containers of stuff, it’s going to move by truck to a rail yard. It’s going to move by train across the country. It’s going to move to another rail yard. It’s going to move by truck to the port of export. If we’re talking air freight, you may say, You know what, I get better rates out of Miami than anywhere else. So Arthur, you got to move the goods to Miami. And so I’m going to need to know where in the United States you want me to bring the goods. In order for me to build a sale price to you, I can’t simply say, well, here’s my price. FCA, FCA, what? FCA, Chicago and FCA Miami. There’s a big difference. But

Andy 25:43
then, oh no, we got a problem where, you know, a ship is hung up, an airplane goes down, or something has been lost, or there’s a train that has derailed, or whatever the case may be, and in all that. So that’s where, with those exceptions, and the proficiency of the folks in those areas that we just mentioned, comes into play. So here’s here’s another question. Let’s just say that a company does not have that kind of setup. Most don’t where there’s this teamwork effort of these different entities. Yeah. With that said, what would you recommend? Let’s just start with the compliance folks or the transportation folks. What would you recommend for somebody to do when it comes to the Incoterms? How taken the information that we’ve got in some of these transactions. What would you recommend if you had to navigate through there and say, Hey, we need to get together and probably work to minimize the risk that the company is seeing

Arthur O’Meara 26:51
well, training. Of course, right? There should be some training. But the thing is, and here’s the problem with training in any area, it doesn’t matter if it’s Incoterms or logistics or letters of credit. Invariably, at the end of the day, the person who takes the training says, oh my goodness, nobody else gets it. I mean, I get it, but nobody else does. And now I’ve got to go back to the office and explain it to everybody, and they’re going to think, I’ve got an agenda. And and, no, I’m just trying to make things right. And so, you know, to get everybody on the same page, we all need to be in the same room and have this conversation and do some training about Incoterms, and, you know,

Andy 27:36
not make assumptions. Part of the challenge is going to be translating the complexity of these international transactions into terminology and phraseology that somebody that’s not a compliance geek or whatever or trade geek even can understand it well with that, let me just ask it this way then, is that as complex as it is, you mentioned the training. So that’s, I mean, obviously that’s the foundation of learning Incoterms, and then how to apply them as a whole different thing and all that. So I’m going to you, you obviously have some very good information. I’ve seen some of this, folks, and I’m going to tell you what I’m about to open up here. He’s got some books. Arthur has some books that are phenomenal. But I want you to stop for a minute to mention what, as far as these additional resources, more than just the inco book term from ICC, yeah, tell me it’s like, do you have some recommendations here of some additional resources that will help somebody in the Eco terms. How’s your softball for you?

Arthur O’Meara 28:45
I’ve always wanted to be on a talk show and say the phrase in my book, shamelessly promote my book. In my book, okay, making money with eco terms. And this is the second edition. This is on eco terms, 2020, Incoterms 2020 we do have a class on this. We’re going to be rolling this out in 2023 this is a book that says, All right, we’ve got the Incoterms. We understand what they are, fine and dandy, but let’s figure out how to use the Incoterms in negotiating purchases and sales, both domestic and international, with the intention of minimizing landed cost and maximizing profit. Okay, so this

Andy 29:24
is a way limit repeat that with the intention of what

Arthur O’Meara 29:28
minimizing cost and maximizing profit.

Andy 29:32
Well, you want to provide the service and all that. All right, so here’s I’m going to pitch this back over now to Lalo. Is that Lalo for the global Training Center. And then, folks, I’m going to tell you, global Training Center is our main sponsor here, and so I’m I’m going to take a moment, but they provide phenomenal courses, great services and all that. But so Lalo, if somebody wants to learn about Incoterms from the. Basics to getting even more advanced once you mentioned what you’ve got, as far as that, the global training center that can be offered. I mean, there’s other training programs. I get it right. I mean, your yours are have been great. I know that,

Lalo 30:14
right? Well, we have a several options. We have a Arthur and even yourself. Andy have talked throughout the show about having several people involved in the process as to at least, just at least getting a clue or knowing what the heck is an Incoterm even though they’re not going to be the ones that are negotiating or applying it. So we have something that is an awareness class just to know, oh, that’s what an Incoterms means that’s a short, one hour class that somebody can take on their own pace, on their own time. It’s recorded. And then Arthur and other instructors teach our basic, or not basic, but our in depth Incoterms class that’s also a half day class that’s live, interactive. You know, people ask questions and everything that could be done, either at on a location somewhere or on a webinar. But then Arthur’s added another class called Incoterm strategies, which is applying, again, like he’s like you mentioned on more of the strategies on, on maximizing. How’d you say it? Arthur maximizing, minimizing, cost, maximizing, yeah, I said it back somewhere. Well, anyway, yeah, and, and I know Arthur, did you trademark that, that term, repo, or did you try to trademark it? Or repo

Arthur O’Meara 31:32
got it Yes, responsibility, possession and ownership, right?

Lalo 31:37
And ownership, right? So our EPO, so he uses that as part of his strategies, as well, on, on, on Incoterms, above and beyond what you might think, oh, let’s just use FCA or GDP or whatever, you know what I mean. And so, you know, and taking all the the consequences, but yeah, so that’s what we offer and and you know, again, as Arthur said, shameless plug, buddy, that’s not that’s what we’re doing here so

Andy 32:06
well. And again, the takeaway for folks, if you’re new to the import, export, transportation, logistics, sourcing, purchasing, doesn’t matter if you are in management that you have been now all of a sudden, inheriting the compliance, or import, export, types of transactions. All that your takeaway, action wise, is, get proficient. Become proficient. Forgive my grammar here, become proficient with the Incoterms that is so paramount. Secondly is once you become proficient with it, is also look at how to apply what you’ve been learning. One of the things that we usually do here is we like to ask our guests, and you have been very eloquent and great. So I appreciate you if you had the opportunity to step in through a time machine or something and go back and talk to your 21 year old self. What would you tell yourself

Unknown Speaker 33:12
at 21

Andy 33:15
wow. We’ve had some people say, you know, I wouldn’t want to go back that far. I’ll I want to talk to my 30 year old self or whatever.

Arthur O’Meara 33:20
Does buy Apple stock count? Yes, it does. We’ve

Andy 33:27
had a few say that buy Tesla, buy Apple,

Unknown Speaker 33:34
yes, yeah,

Arthur O’Meara 33:36
but no, all kidding aside. Actually, that’s not kidding. I would love to have done that.

Unknown Speaker 33:44
2020, on that. Oh,

Arthur O’Meara 33:46
boy, that’s a tough question. I really, I don’t know what I would say. I mean, I my life has been anything but a straight line. I’ve lived very many places. I’ve had different careers. I have studied different things. When I was 21 I was studying anthropology, I was doing linguistics, which has nothing to do with Incoterms, okay,

Andy 34:13
other than how to properly pronounce them, right?

Arthur O’Meara 34:15
Yeah, you know, I don’t know if I’d say anything, I’d say just, you know what? Keep it up.

Lalo 34:23
Well, then, yeah, I was gonna say, then your answer is, do you, I mean, because you did, you Arthur, and you went through all those experiences. I mean, I know you personally, and I can attest that this guy is other than his age. He is that guy in that in that Dos Equis commercial, the world, interesting man, that’s it, yeah, that’s Arthur. I mean, he really is. He’s, it’s, it’s great to sit with Arthur and just talk, talk about just anything, really, yeah, but anyway, and I’m Bucha.

Andy 35:00
Arthur, it has been an absolute pleasure. I hope I haven’t bent your ear too much there, and hardly gave Lalo even a chance to jump in there. But this is one of those. Is that I just I’m fascinated with Incoterms, and I’m more fascinated with the the application thereof. So,

Arthur O’Meara 35:20
yeah, well, anything and everything to do with business, I could talk all day. Thank you, gentlemen,

Andy 35:26
this is a great show for our last one for the year. So it is, and we may have to break this one up, our last one and our first one. Who knows? So, yeah, who

Lalo 35:35
knows? Right, exactly what I do want to say, Happy New Year to both of you, and I’m going to continue to do business with both of you, which is going to be fun until 2023 and we’ll hit Arthur up when the Incoterms 2024 come on the marketing people anyway. But thank you, Arthur.

Arthur O’Meara 35:55
My pleasure. Thank you both as well.