Machine Operated Script:

Renee Chiuchiarelli (00:01)
All right, welcome back to Simply Trade Tips with Hammer and Heels, Renee Cuccarelli and Julie Parks. We’re gonna leave you with a call to action and an FIO. We usually say in 10 minutes or less. We’re a little bit talkative, right, Jules? We were hoping we could do it in five. But, ⁓ you know, we’re on to our series four. ⁓ Hopefully you guys have been listening to Tear of Chaos, our career.

Julie Ann Parks (00:16)
We are.

Renee Chiuchiarelli (00:28)
series, our Tariff’s Calf series, our Career series, our Managing a Project series, and now we’re going to talk about Difficult Conversations, Series 4. So Episode 1 is what is a trick, we’re going to define, like, what is a tricky and difficult conversation? So, ⁓ Jewel, what should we talk about today? What’s our tip topic today?

Julie Ann Parks (00:53)
Yeah,

so we are, as you mentioned, we’re going to go over difficult conversations. I think that, you know, preparing for this was, it’s difficult, it’s difficult to kind of solidify the guidance around what you would think of what worked for you, and whatnot. But Renee, Renee, I are going to try to do that for you in a couple of steps here. So we think the first one is we

Renee Chiuchiarelli (01:13)
Okay.

Julie Ann Parks (01:18)
we wanted to define ⁓ what is a difficult conversation. So Renee, I know you’ve had some difficult, I have, maybe you kind of start with some topics that you recognize are difficult conversations.

Renee Chiuchiarelli (01:33)
Sure, mean, so we have, we’ve got it broken down in two steps. Again, we’re like a step group. Just kidding. So first step is like two way street conversations, okay? One of those, ⁓ one example could be salary. You let’s say you’re like, talk, you’re thinking, hey, I’m doing a lot here. I’m doing extra projects. You know, I’ve been on multiple meetings. I’m doing the tariff information.

So sometimes having a conversation with your direct manager about salary can be a difficult conversation. Another one is non-compliance discoveries. Sometimes it depends on the company’s ⁓ compliance posture. Maybe your posture is a little different than the organization. And that’s a whole nother topic we can talk about because it’s good to work in an organization that

replicates your compliance ⁓ posture. Then difficult conversations are less. Yeah.

Julie Ann Parks (02:30)
It’s hard, isn’t it hard? ⁓

Right, it’s hard to tell people that we have a discovery and we need to take a pause here and perhaps shut down exports or imports for whatever reason until we can figure out what’s going on in this investigation and this non-compliance area. Those are really tough discussions, right? I also think too, you you talk about salary, but performance in general is always, you do want to give

Renee Chiuchiarelli (02:51)
Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Ann Parks (02:59)
⁓ helpful feedback and you don’t want it to be perceived as something that ⁓ is bad to be worked out. The performance issues are never really, definitely there are some pieces that do go down the sad path, I suppose. But I do think that ⁓ there’s a way to put the constructive criticism in a way that you can get some value out of it without the person leaving and feeling like just downtrodden.

Renee Chiuchiarelli (03:26)
Yeah, right.

mean, everyone has room. Somebody told me once there’s always room for jello. So that means there’s always room for improvement. ⁓ The other thing is perceived bad news by either party, right? ⁓

Julie Ann Parks (03:32)
Mm-hmm.

room.

Right,

right. So you might think that you’re delivering and you’re having this easy conversation, but the person that’s on the receiving end is like, this is terrible. This is, you know, it could be the delivery, it could be what was said. ⁓ But I suppose here it’s an aspect of, ⁓ you know, understanding that you could be giving information, communicating information. The receiving party might be perceiving it very differently. So it’s good to always ask.

how did you feel about this discussion today? there anything that you know, just kind of keep communicating? Yeah.

Renee Chiuchiarelli (04:15)
Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Okay.

So, so those are some examples. So we’ve defined difficult conversations and now we’re going to get into preparing for the difficult conversation. So what do you think we need to do to prepare Jules?

Julie Ann Parks (04:31)
⁓ so I think the words matter and you really need to choose your words wisely. I think that, you know, scripts, ⁓ tend to help things. think that, words in a way where it talks about we as a team need to do things together in this manner.

and what can we do to make this happen? you know, kind of, kind of, it’s, more of a, it’s not just the individual receiving some of the difficult feedback, but it’s how can we work together to make this the outcome? Because it’s not the outcome today, you know?

Renee Chiuchiarelli (05:08)
Right, exactly. So, and you mentioned writing things down. Maybe it’s good to take a minute and pause and draft the information, draft responses, you know, preparing to tell someone. It’s easier, I think, when you have a moment to think about it. And writing down always helps. It helps me anyway.

Julie Ann Parks (05:28)
Right, right. And framing it too, I think whatever the difficult conversation is, is kind of starting off with what brought you to this point and giving a recap, because you might find too that your event of things may not be how the receiver is, you know, sharing the event of things. you’re by offering kind of the what brought us to this point, it helps ⁓ the receiver.

wait, wait, let’s go back a minute. I’m not, I didn’t get that from this, you know, this previous conversation. ⁓ So I think that, especially in large organizations, when you don’t get the opportunity to chat with everybody on a daily basis, ⁓ I also think too, ⁓ the home life and the ⁓ more Zoom capabilities kind of lend itself to not having all of those ⁓ real discussions so that you can be clear.

about what your intent is in the delivery. by you kind of, you know, recapping and then asking the question of, you believe this to be true or, you know, is that, we on the same page with this? And invites discussion. ⁓

Renee Chiuchiarelli (06:36)
Yeah.

And, and like we talked about it too, mentioning the tone, you know, so one example I had, I worked for directly for, ⁓ some owners of a company and, ⁓ there was some non-compliance and I, I was so stressed about talking to them about this. And so I had to practice my tone. had to write things down. I had to get a plan together. Honestly, I had to do a project plan, go back to project management and, ⁓

Julie Ann Parks (07:01)
Yes, that’s true.

Renee Chiuchiarelli (07:04)
I had to get in

front of them and they didn’t want to hear it. So that was kind of our one way street, but it took a lot of preparation ⁓ and thinking and outlining a project to let them know the seriousness of this issue. I wanted to impress upon them how serious it was. So sometimes preparing might even take a project plan, honestly. And then last, ⁓ you’re going to have the conversation.

Julie Ann Parks (07:29)
Exactly, exactly.

Renee Chiuchiarelli (07:34)
Right, so you’ve prepped for it and now you’re gonna have it. So what do

Julie Ann Parks (07:34)
Mm-hmm.

All right, so Renee here, think it’s as you’ve

gone through and you’ve kind of scripted and thought through that, you need to think about the other side. So anticipate what questions are going to come up as you have the discussion, put yourself in their shoes for a moment. so for example, layoff situations or things like that, you’re gonna wanna anticipate they’re going to have questions.

So are you following up with a document very shortly after the call? ⁓ What information are you able to provide them with in the meeting that sets them a bit at ease when you’re having these types of discussions? ⁓ What else, Renee, should folks think about when they’re having the conversation?

Renee Chiuchiarelli (08:23)
I think, you know, always keep it on a willingness to keep the dialogue open, keep everything in a respectful fashion. Sometimes people get very passionate, especially about maybe non-compliance, right? So ⁓ keep everything in a good tone, a professional tone and a respectful tone. ⁓ And then what else do you think, Jewel?

Julie Ann Parks (08:46)
Yeah, and there’s

tactics that I think we can use too. So one that was taught to me at the defense company was the likes, concerns, suggestions. Hey, I like that you’re, you know, helping out more. I’m concerned that you’re not able to contribute on this particular project. So I would like to see you, you know, and I’m suggesting that you get involved more in this project.

So it’s a way to kind of sandwich the discussion so that it becomes you know, you’re you know have writers block on exactly How are you going to approach something? ⁓ Talking through it in a tone of likes concern suggestions and if your team gets familiar with that they know that they’re being like concerned suggested to and and they and you would be surprised how that takes a lot of the ⁓

Difficultness out of the discussion out of it and it makes the delivery that much easier because it’s framed and it’s succinct and it’s clear because that’s the other thing too. If you ramble on in some of these difficult conversations, you might not get where you want and doing likes, concerns, suggestions like, I like what you’re doing over here. I’m a little bit concerned about this area. Hey, I’m suggesting that we kind of pick up the pace in this space or whatever it is.

Renee Chiuchiarelli (10:06)
I think you may have used that on me.

Julie Ann Parks (10:08)
Yeah, I think I did. It

was used on me to start with. Right?

Renee Chiuchiarelli (10:15)
Yeah, no, awesome. All right. And then, know, ⁓ to Julie’s point, you may be in front of the person or you may have to email them. So be prepared to, know, for you can put likes, concerns and suggestions in an email very easily as well. ⁓ So, Joel, what’s our FIO? Figure it out. Call to action.

Julie Ann Parks (10:27)
Yes.

Well, let me add on, Renee, I do want to comment with folks.

If you do have to send an email to start with, that’s to frame the discussion. A difficult, know, depending on the severity of the discussion, it should always allow a follow up by maybe not in person, but maybe it’s via Zoom to focus on the, because there’s hurt feelings that happen and there’s sadness that people carry, right, going forward in projects.

And we don’t want that. We want to rid ourselves of that. want everybody to feel like they’re a part of the team and we’re moving in the right direction. So you got to communicate and email could start the discussion and get them thinking. But then you’re doing that kind of follow up. Tag in or your next tag and you’re saying, Hey, I sent you this email. Let’s chat about it for a minute. How do you feel about this? ⁓ so then Renee, you did ask about the FIO. I think that, ⁓ this looks concerned suggestions piece is really powerful. And I think we want folks to practice that.

Renee Chiuchiarelli (11:14)
Great point. Great.

Julie Ann Parks (11:30)
and share with us, like, how did you use it? I must say, I laugh. I have used it on my family. I have had a brother use it to another brother, and it works, right? It’s, ⁓ I like that you are emptying the dishwasher. I’m concerned you’re putting things in the wrong place, so I suggest you put the spoons where the spoons go over here, you know, those types of things.

Renee Chiuchiarelli (11:37)
You

Are you saying

it’s can it’s infectious? think it is actually.

Julie Ann Parks (11:53)
It is, it

is. And it’s a nice, it’s a really nice way to frame things, I think. And it’s a nice way, if you’ve ever received it and you don’t know that you’re being likes, concerns adjusted to, you’re like, oh gosh, that’s a really good feed. Thank you. You know, I will put the spoons away in the right place, you know, or whatever it is.

Renee Chiuchiarelli (12:06)
Yeah. Right.

All right. Awesome. You guys, thanks for listening. Again, we invite you to our community trade geeks. Let us know. Did you use likes, concerns, and suggestions? I might have to do LCS. We’ll just call it LCS. All right. Take care, you guys. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Julie.

Julie Ann Parks (12:22)
LCS. Yeah. Very good.

Thanks Renee.