The Strategic Power of Duty Drawback

Machine Operated Script:

Speaker 1  00:05

We’ve been going over three years now, I guess, haven’t we? Lalo,

Lalo  00:09

yeah, I was just actually off camera before you came in. I was just telling our guests that we just started our fourth year. So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1  00:16

My gosh, this is phenomenal. We’re gonna be talking about something today that not only goes to, you know, some of the fundamentals of what you should be doing, as far as a you know, your compliance area, what you should be doing, but getting into some advanced techniques and tactics and procedures and whatnot. So looking forward to this, there’s a lot of things that have, I guess, upped the ante. I was just saying off camera here that with any duty drawbacks or any, you know, imports and exports, quite frankly, if you can take advantage of any of the trade programs, you know the what was I’m trying to say, the trade deals between countries, I’ve just gone blank. I tell you my elevator like sometimes just doesn’t make it all the way up anyway. If you want to take advantage of that, the data elements and some of the records have actually increased as far as what you should be storing. And so that’s something that we’re going to get into and talk about. But I will say, you know, the things in your company, too. People need to be getting not only refreshers and building that foundation of knowledge, but also expanding their knowledge with some of the courses that you guys are able to offer from GTC, right?

Lalo  01:32

No, yeah, that’s true. But so right now it is, you know, that that time where, where folks need to realize that that none of this is going away. Of course, you know, I think, I think some might be, might at first have been like sitting in like a wait and see type situation. But obviously this is, this is here to stay, and this is the one thing that I like to always point out because of the current trade situation we have had, or we have seen companies that are now doing things in their trade programs that they hadn’t they knew about but they hadn’t been doing. You know, I always talk about usmca Because, of course, being here on the border with US and Mexico, we see that a lot here. You know, NAFTA was a big deal, usmca is a big deal. So now people are implementing usmca programs when they never did before. And same goes with drawback. I mean, folks are now looking at drawback and saying that’s another avenue for us to, like, recover some of our revenue. So anyway, we had some folks that used to do training for us back in the day for drawback, Sita, Customs brokers.

Speaker 1  02:41

So Simran, I love the background you’ve got. Where are you located there? We’re

Simran Dalvi  02:46

in Ogden, Utah, and this is actually our new office this October. It’s going to be literally a year since we moved, and there’s a temple behind, so it’s and we have a lovely view the mountain, and it’s perfect. I mean, I

Speaker 1  03:00

saw the mountain and it is like, it’s like, yeah, that looks like some nice area. So have you, have you been there?

Simran Dalvi  03:07

Long? Been here, three years now. Now call myself Utahn, is what they say.

Speaker 1  03:14

Well, have you picked up snow skiing? No.

Simran Dalvi  03:18

Long Way. Long way. I will say I was not an outdoorsy person, but now I’m all into hiking and trekking and trails and all of those things. So baby steps, but I’ll get there. I’ll get there this year. I hope.

Speaker 1  03:28

Isn’t it beautiful? It’s like the sky, you’re closer to the sky out there or something. I don’t know. It’s just beautiful, isn’t

Simran Dalvi  03:35

it? It’s stunning. And it’s such a good time of the year too. Like it’s fall, there’s fall and frost, so there’s snow and there’s fall colors, perfect time, amazing time, fantastic.

Andy  03:45

All right, well, listen, we need to get into some things. This isn’t, I mean, we talk about how beautiful it is out there all day long. So you’re you’re into looking and what I was talking about earlier here is on the duty drawback with the dramatic changes. And you know, almost minute by minute, hour by hour, type changes, some of these with the the trade deals that are going through. And then, you know, you’ve got added duties. They’re taken away, they’re added, you know, all this kind of stuff in the ups and downs, what’s been going on from a duty drawback perspective. Because one of the things I want to get into is, you know, back to folks, you got to have a foundation on what are the key things, and archive is one of them. And we’re going to get into some of that, but it’s like the bar has been raised, especially for duty drawback as well as your basic importation

Simran Dalvi  04:43

Yeah, absolutely. And Andy, I feel like this is one of the most complex trade environments we’ve seen. Trade Policy has become so unpredictable. One policy, one new announcement, and you know, it can change the entire economics of a supply chain. So it’s pretty it’s pretty. Huge what’s going on, duty drawback as a whole. I remember I was at the AEI conference a couple of months ago, and I think about that conference versus conferences that I’ve done in the past, say, even a year ago, where I used to be sitting at a table. And, you know, most people in the trade, obviously, a lot of people in the trade world will know about duty drawback, but nobody will really talk about it or knows the intricacies of it. One year earlier, there was a certain explanation that had to go out and today, at AEI, a couple of months ago, when I was sitting, people were talking about duty drawback already, before I even made that introduction. That’s the change we’ve seen. That’s the level of change we’ve seen. All eyes, I feel like are on duty drawback right now, because I feel like everything has converged, in a way, you know, the government shutdown, the tariff situation, CBP, still working, but also the processing has become slow. It’s all converged to come into one thing. But the one thing that we are seeing is that people now want to apply for duty drawback. It’s not just a special project. It’s also like a strategic tool, where people think this is a good financial decision, more than just a small one time thing, because you’re spending so much on your duties that now you want to recover it. So from a duty drawback standpoint, it’s been, it’s been a lot of ups and downs, but I feel like it’s gotten all eyes on duty, drawback, which I feel like from, you know, I might be a little biased, but about time, about time, well,

Speaker 1  06:26

and Lalo, you made a great point earlier, is, is that people are doing people. Let me rephrase that companies and executive management especially, are probably investigating or opening up the door to doing more things from a we were talking about duty, drawback or other types of things in the import, export, supply chain, than they’ve ever done before, because they, you know, in the past, it probably wasn’t worth the time and effort. Now, it’s significant,

Lalo  06:54

right? But now also, there’s also this other thing. I didn’t know about this until I read a blog article that Simran also is getting ready, or that that is posted on on their website, you’ll, you’ll be able to find that link here on our show notes. But I didn’t realize, so I’m discovering things about things like this, right? So there’s drawback. And I thought, well, drawback, you go and file and you get your money back and all that. But I didn’t realize there was, like, you can level up on drawback, right? Is that drawback privileges? Right? Yes. So I didn’t realize there was such a thing, you know. So, I mean, maybe we can get started with like that. I mean, maybe a lot of folks don’t know that Riggs is,

Simran Dalvi  07:36

yeah, I literally did Sorry. Go ahead Andy,

Speaker 1  07:38

well, I was just gonna and before you get in, just so everybody there, maybe a few folks are going to draw back. I don’t know what that means. What drawback is means that you’ve imported, as a company, you’ve imported, let’s say a big shipment of, let’s say 10,000 widgets, and you paid $1,000 in duties and taxes. And so then you consume that, let’s say 8000 into the US that’s domestic, but 2000 you’ve sold to outside the country, and so you can draw back, if you will, or get a refund on the duties you’ve paid. So that’s what it is. But it’s just like you have to file a certain form and process and all that to get a refund from the government. So

Speaker 2  08:25

And the really cool thing is that you can do, and I love this example, because, for obvious reasons, you can be importing Scotch from Scotland whiskey. But let’s say you make bourbon in the US, and you’re exporting that back to Scotland so that they can taste real. What real whiskey should be like? No, I’m kidding.

Speaker 3  08:47

We’re gonna get it on that one. I’m kidding, guys, I’m kidding.

Simran Dalvi  08:51

Complete digress. This conversation has potential to digress.

Lalo  08:55

So, yeah, you can get the drawback on that import because they’re like items, correct?

Simran Dalvi  09:01

So, yes, I mean, there’s so much into it, you know. And without getting into the nitty gritties, I wouldn’t be able to comment. But it can be, you know, manifest. It can come on a manufactured drawback that, oh, it was manufactured into a new product. Or, you know, we can claim under and again, this is not a type of drawback as much as how you claim it either direct ID substitution. Was substituting one against the other, again, without knowing the intricacies of it, I wouldn’t be able to comment on that, and that’s probably the diplomatic lawyer side. And me being like, okay, probably would not. But yes, you can claim drawback, and that’s the best part of about it. Like, if you’ve paid money, that’s legally yours, if you’re getting it out back and you’re exporting it, which is, which is the beauty off it, which is amazing. Well,

Andy  09:41

excellent. So in that there’s also with the different trade deals. I mean, you obviously, you know, let’s go with the basics right now. You have to keep track of what you have purchased, when you purchased it, and when you imported that in under what entries and whatnot. Yeah. And what you’ve done there. But then, when you are going to claim whatever is exported, and when you file a duty drawback, you’re saying, Okay, I’m doing a drawback. I’ve exported, you know, 10,000 widgets here against this set of imports. And here’s the import entries, I guess, yes, with the documentation, that’s your basic documentation. Here’s a entry, copy, commercial invoices, values and all that, and when it came in. Now, here’s the shipment going out, here’s the bill of lading, all those things and commercial invoices. But in addition to that, now there’s a, there’s, I guess there’s some more data elements like the, you know, literally, the date of manufacture, on some things, I believe, and and what was used, and all that I get, I’m there’s little things like that that people have not necessarily recorded in the past. Yep, when it comes to the supply chain, they’ve recorded it, you know, yeah, you know when this batch is recorded, but now you’re having to incorporate that into your supply chain records and archive, right?

Simran Dalvi  11:10

Yes, I will say that CBP. And obviously it’s not just CBP. I mean, regulation demanded that they have been very, very thorough about documentation. I mean, I want to say most, if not all claims or applications that are denied happen because of poor documentation. So a good point of the manufacturing I do feel like you know, these requirements have always been there, but now it’s coming to the forefront a lot more in terms of urgency, in terms of how important it is to have everything, just because, I mean, you can imagine we’re in a shutdown situation. We’re in a situation where CBP is understaffed, you know, it’s the processing time is taking so long when they resume, which they obviously will, when things go back to normal, they’re going to want to expedite the situation. They’re going to want to, you know, make sure that their workload is lessened. And they’re going to want to do that fast. And so you can imagine, they’re not going to want to sit and look at applications that are incomplete, and that’s the biggest thing. I mean, for me, yes, these requirements have always been there, but there is a need to look into your own internal policies now, while you have the time, because there is a certain gap, a small one Albert, that we can use to make sure that our documentation is fine. I mean, from an unused perspective, you’re tracking import to export with your receipt inventory, your withdrawal inventory. You make sure that it’s a one track item. When it’s a manufacturing like Andy you were mentioning, it’s also when it goes into production, when it comes out of production, your bill of materials, what are you exporting? All of those things, it’s how you’re able to tie those loose ends. Is a big thing with CBP. Because, I mean, we always keep coming back to this thing, and CBP keeps saying that drawback is a privilege, not a right. And so they like making sure that you deserve the money that you’re getting back. I mean, obviously companies know that this money is legally theirs, but it’s money going out of the government, so they want to make sure that you know you are compliant, your internal policies are in place, and now more so than ever in you know my experience so far, well, real

Lalo  13:11

quick. My guess is that there’s a lot more applications obviously coming in, but my guess is that a lot of them may be coming in quite accurate or well filled like, in other words, there might not be any issues, you know, and get, they get past that because of software, especially like nowadays with AI, but because of that, you’re saying that they’re taking longer to process. Is, that’s the bottleneck that we’re seeing, is that is and that. And then back to my original question, Is that the reason why you might want to do drawback, privilege, privileges versus just regular drawback? Or am I misunderstanding that? No,

Simran Dalvi  13:46

so I’ll address this. I’ll address your second question. First drawback privileges should be done. There’s no reason why you shouldn’t do it. I mean, that’s with or without the new tariff situation, the shutdown situation, it’s something that should be done because regular drawback is just you not applying for accelerated payment and then waiting in a long queue for your claims to get liquidated. When you apply for privileges, what you’re doing is you’re essentially asking CBP to grant you the privilege and to grant you the accommodation, basically by giving you money even before you file the claim. So they will get, you know, a sample, and they’ll be like, Okay, you seem compliant. You don’t seem sketchy. You have internal policies in place, you feel compliant. And so we’re going to give you an accelerated payment. And you know, you can keep filing claims and we’ll keep liquidating it, but you don’t have to wait for so long. We we’re paying you in advance. That is the privilege. All companies can apply for it, as long as the internal documentation is strong and the policies are strong, and everything else looks good, versus where you’ve not applied for the privilege and you’re just waiting in a long queue, which is not what most companies do. No, we would not even recommend that accelerated privileges is with or without the whole current situation. Okay, that that would be. On, yes, I would say the real bottleneck here is in two places, a CBP is understaffed. You know, it’s taking so much, it’s taking longer to have these things process. I mean, they’re doing the best they can, but the bottleneck is that, you know, the the processing time has increased. And the second thing is, they’ve also issued a notification saying that they’ve, you know, going to be stopping payments, essentially. So there’s also a financial a cash flow bottleneck that we’re looking at at this point, because so many companies, the small ones or the medium ones, they will look at this drawback money to essentially help with their next shipments. Or it’s not just some money, it’s money that’s going into something else. And so the bottleneck also comes from a cash flow perspective. And of course, to your point, AI is so helpful. I mean, automation has changed the game, I feel, and definitely that helps in accelerating and expediting it. But again, having said that, I will say human touch a little bit is always good

Andy  15:59

with the dramatic changes of the trade deals that are constantly going back and forth. What do you recommend for somebody that is maybe a seasoned professional they’ve never really maybe utilized duty drawback, maybe they have, but, you know, sporadic or if they’re doing it now, it’s like, is there something that you would recommend, and say you need to go in and check your archives to make sure you have this again, duty drawback comes back to how accurate and detailed your archive is, really, if it comes down to it, because in looking at filing the the forms you got to have, somebody knows what they’re doing. Obviously your company’s one, but the it’s all based on how accurate and good your your data is. So how, what would you tell me is like, all right, Andy, you need to go in and check for

Simran Dalvi  16:54

x, right? And Andy, I think you make a really valid point. If I were somebody, or if I had to recommend somebody who’s entering duty drawback, or who’s using this opportunity, I would at least start with two things. Look at your internal documentation, because that’s 90% of the whole game. If you don’t have documentation in place, you know, if you don’t have your import documentation, your export documentation, the documentation that comes in the middle, that’s going to be an issue. So use this time wisely to look at those documentation. Make sure you’re doing audits. You know, be audit ready. Make sure that your company is audit friendly. Make sure that your, you know, all your ducks are in a row, essentially, see, I would also say, make sure all your teams are aligned. You know, finance, logistics, operations, these are important teams that have to go together to make sure that your drawback program is successful. And having those teams, or, you know, knowing who’s doing what, who has what, who’s in charge of the documentation, that goes a really long way, you know. And I know that the shutdown and the is, this whole climate that we’re in is is really volatile, but I will say that, you know, use this time to file a solid application, so that when CBP resumes and they will, it’s faster. There’s no way back. There’s no coming back to you with Andy, you missed ABC. And then another 30 days until you reply, another 30 days before they reply. And it’s an ever ending, never ending. You know, it can be a never ending game. So it can be a really long time. Make sure that in the first shot you’ve got it right? Whether it’s a privileges application, whether it’s any kind of audit, whether it’s a custom request, whether it’s a full desk review to make sure that all of these are aligned even before you do the application.

Andy  18:31

Okay? So with that, then, as you’re going through, first off, you’ve got to have ace access, right? Yes. So that should be a fundamental anyway, I think with the layoff come in, plus just the overwhelming, you know, volumes of things, I guess there’s a backlog, I think you mentioned by CBP right now, just processing applications to give ace access to an importer. Yes.

Simran Dalvi  19:02

I mean, that has definitely slowed down things. I mean, it’s easier if you already have ace, but that’s the backlog we’re looking at. Even with ace, with application, with claims, with payment, there’s definitely a backlog. So to your point, I mean, if you have ace, that’s great, but otherwise, making sure that you’re ready to provide the documentation when CBP resumes. That’s probably the best thing. Whether it’s ace, whether it’s claims, whether it’s payments, we don’t have too much control over but applications, claims, ace, all of these things, yes, to be prepared is the best

Speaker 3  19:32

thing. Do

Lalo  19:33

you feel that one? Okay, so you got your ACE account. You’re filing, you file a drawback claim, for example. Do you feel, let’s say, in a normal world, not during the shutdown. I know, right now in the shutdown, everything’s changed, but prior to that, because of all the new revenue making streams that CBP has, right? You know, with all the terrors and everything they do, obviously need to the CBP officers, or the CBP needs to keep up with all that. Do you feel that they may prioritize that over drawbacks, like collecting money versus refunding money? Like, how do you, how do you see that as a strategy, I guess, for someone who is trying to do drawbacks,

Simran Dalvi  20:13

in my opinion, I think Lalo, that’s, that’s a very good question, and that’s, that’s even you know, a real one, because you’d rather, you know, think about getting money after such a situation than giving out money from your own pocket. I mean, in fact, I remember being at a conference. It was, you know, a trade professional, the CBP conference, and one of the things, you know, they were talking about was drop back, but it was so low on the priority list. Also, there was something about, there was, there was something that was going to be coming out in terms of different trade fields, essentially. And I remember going up and saying, okay, word that this is really exciting, you know, we would love to see this in drawback. And they were like, we are doing a pilot program for ABC, and we’ll get to drawback. That’s a very valid point. That’s an extremely valid point that that is definitely a concern, which is why even the blog that, you know, we were speaking about is, is something that I felt, the need, that we needed to address, you know, even as a company, is because record keeping is, is, is the best thing, because otherwise there’s no way that that’s the only thing we can do is what I’m saying in the current shutdown, there’s there’s only but there’s very little that we can do, and there’s even very little, unfortunately, that CBP can do from our side, just having your documentation and your ducks in a row is the best case scenario, because, I mean, they’re going to come to us, but they’re going to come to us later. You don’t want to prolong that a lot more, you know?

Speaker 1  21:42

Well, let’s talk a little bit about the process. It’s like, okay, so we have the documentation archive. We’ve emphasized how important the the archive is. And so when you’re working with a client, they give you all the information. And so what do you do? Are you filing a hard copy request for the drawback, or you doing some kind of electronic entry and transmitting that

Simran Dalvi  22:05

it’s all electronic. So when our when we have, we have a proven process that we work with, and so you know, when our clients will send documentation, at least, my team will look at all the documentation, review it, make sure that it’s all good to go real final application. And once that application goes electronically, it’s not it’s nothing. Is hard copy. We’ll send that application to CBP, and then once that’s done, we would be start, we would start filing claims, or operation teams would start filing claims. They would make sure, you know we’re doing the claims as as they’re coming along, and those claims are liquidated once that privileges, as we call it, is is essentially approved. So the major the time that we see usually is not in the liquidation, because those claims, they can be liquidated in two to four weeks once the major application is approved, which can take time. Usually, by regulation, it’s it’s 90 days that it’s supposed to be approved in. But we see a longer time with CPP again, the whole understaffed situation, processing can be slow, and so we see six months at an average or minimum, sometimes is what we see. But once that is approved, that’s that’s the biggest hurdle, then you’re good to go, and then you’re good to you know, see your claims being liquidated, and at that point you also get your money back.

Andy  23:21

So are you able to go ahead and file the duty drawback claim before it’s liquidated and then it’s but you’re doing a pre lick request at the same time? Is that what I’m hearing?

Simran Dalvi  23:33

Yes, yes. You You file the duty drawback claims once you have submitted the application, it doesn’t get liquidated until that application is approved. The reason why we do this is to lock in the five year period. So you can only go back five years. The statute of limitation only allows you to go back five years. So say, for example, you know, the application got approved in November, and I decided to file the claims in November. But five years have you know, you’re done. And so for the last say, in 2120 25 Yeah, in 21 if you go back or 2020 you’d miss that year, just because you know your five year statute of limitation is over. So that’s the reason we keep filing. But that doesn’t get liquidated, unless and until your claim your privileges is absorbed.

Andy  24:18

So here would be something that I would what? What is it? A maybe a CFO, more than likely, is more interested in the duty drawback than anybody but a an executive, if you will, of a company, what should they be asking their staff regarding our you know, have we been taking advantage of duty drawbacks, should we and should we go back five years?

Simran Dalvi  24:44

When you say, when you say, what they should ask their staff, in terms of, like, what they have to do duty, draw back or in terms of if they should do duty to

Speaker 1  24:52

see if they’re even eligible. I mean, is there an opportunity? I mean, just because there’s a duty drawback, opportunity there and you. To sell internationally. Let’s say you’ve got, you know, obviously you’re selling domestically, but you’re also selling outside the US. Yep, the question would be, just because you’re selling internationally doesn’t necessarily mean you would qualify for duty drawback, or, on the flip side, you qualify and don’t even know it. So, you know, that’s the other thing, I guess, that comes into play, is how? What does an executive need to do? From your perspective, what? What advice would you give the C suite to say, hey, you need to check into this. Here’s where to go. Here’s the question they ask. Right?

Simran Dalvi  25:40

I think first off, for starters, I would look at, you know, what are you importing, and how much of what you’re importing Are you exporting, whether that’s unused, whether that’s manufacturing, just like Lalo, give the example of whiskey and bourbon, how much of that is being exported? That’s the first question. Because, I mean, if you’re importing 100% and then you’re exporting 1% technically, in a financial sound situation, that doesn’t really, that does really help. So the first fundamental question would be that how much of what you’re importing is what you’re exporting, and if the answer of that is is good, like, Okay, you’re importing and at least 80, 90% is what you’re exporting, or even a lesser number, more or less, that’s a good starting place. I would also say a lot of companies these, our company, would have free valuations, or, you know, for you to kind of see if you’re eligible, I would say, talk to a drawback broker in that situation, once you have an import and an export, then to be able to go into the different avenues of, okay, Does this qualify? Does this not? Do you all have the proper documentation? Do you have the proper process? Because a lot of the times, and I’ve seen in my experience, is people will qualify for drawback, but the majority of the times, they probably don’t work with the right vendors, you know, or they wouldn’t have the right documentation. They don’t have the right software. A lot of these good softwares are in the market, but sometimes a lot of people, small companies, mid size companies, will have manual records or will have that as a normal course of business. CBP will not accept that they’re really thorough with their documentation. So those are the things that maybe you can speak to a drawback broker and get more information on, because only when they see that documentation or see what your internal process is like Will they be able to recommend but for starters, if you feel like you’re importing and exporting, that’s a good place to start.

Andy  27:24

Well, and there’s also, sounds certain that there’s, it would be one of those things where they could put together a task force, absolutely, a group of people that, you know, look at this. Here’s our objective. We’re looking to see, would we have the opportunity to qualify for some duty drawback going back five years? And if so, then what would it take to make that a reality, to pull this all together? And you would definitely need, you know, a company like yours, to help lead that absolutely champion the group, somebody within the group, probably your compliance area. But you would need your sourcing group, Purchasing Group, whatever your transportation logistics, so you can keep track in the routing and Bill of ladings and all that kind of stuff, probably your accounts receivable, accounts payable. Would you not think on something like that? Absolutely.

Simran Dalvi  28:20

And I mean, to my earlier point that I was saying logistics, operations, finance, these play such an important role in my experience. I’ve seen that. You know, the successful programs, the ones that are really smooth sailing are the ones who know exactly who to go to. Because sometimes, and like you said, Andy, I think it was such a valid point that a CFO will be interested the most in duty drawback. It’s a revenue stream, it’s a cash flow kind of situation, but they might not be the right person you know, to get the documentation, to understand and coordinate with vendors, to understand CBP regulations. It takes somebody who’s in the field, in the roots, to kind of understand that, maybe a person from logistics, maybe someone from operations, maybe a compliance person, and so having the right people on that call, whether it’s a determination call, whether it’s a call to collect documents, that is such a game changer. And I feel like the most successful drawback programs are those that are handed over to the right person, because a lot of the times we’ve seen that a lot of the clients, I mean, you are my client right now, but we’re not filing a program until six months, five months, and sometimes a lot of that delay can be because they’re connecting calls, they’re reaching out to the right person. They’re trying to figure out who the right person is,

Andy  29:32

yeah, navigating. That’s what I call bird dog. And you’re trying to find the right folks to Yeah, it is. Another one is somebody that has access to not only the systems, but you know where the archives are of that data, and being able then to tap that. One thing I will say, and Laila, this is something maybe you can speak to, is I’ve seen where, yeah, we’ve got an archive, and so the data is. An archive, but nobody’s ever done anything to try and extract out of the archive. And then when they go to do that, they find it’s extremely difficult, because they it’s almost like they dumped all the data in one big bucket. Well, where are the indexes here? And I

Simran Dalvi  30:14

don’t know, but certainly I agree with that. I mean, I know, you know, we had, in the past, a client. And this is a, this is a client who had, it was a manufacturing thing, the thing that Andy you were speaking about where, you know, you have to give all of those extra, additional details of into production, out of production, how is the final product? How’s that bourbon being made? Essentially, it’s a lot more with manufacturing. And this client had about, you know, 20 contract manufacturers, 10, actually 10 to 20 that they were working with. So that’s a lot of contract manufacturers, you know, partners you’re working with so many other vendors you’re working with. Imagine one client who has to deal with so many other vendors to have a successful drawback program. I mean, they were perfect, because they knew exactly who to put on the call, and who could connect to these vendors who had a relationship with them, and that came together so seamlessly, something that can be so daunting. You know, dealing with so many vendors at the same time to have a successful program can go as smoothly as if both the parties, your drawback, broker and the client know exactly what’s happening that sink is so it’s not spoken about enough, but I feel like that flow and that sink is so important for a successful program and for a seamless program, I’d say

Andy  31:28

excellent, excellent. Well, I will say that with this, let’s just kind of wrap up here with the benefits of going through all of this. Have you had some clients that you helped them start a duty drawback program, and start looking at and say, hey, you know what you do qualify for something all that, what did they wind up? You know, where they you know, what was the benefit after all of this bottom line, you know, we’re talking about it, but I mean, there’s some significant dollars in this.

Simran Dalvi  31:59

Yes, absolutely. I mean, it’s a strategy. It’s a strategic tool for for revenue. It’s not just like I keep saying a project at the side. I mean, so many of our clients because cita has been in the drawback world for so long. You know, even before drawback was trendy, I would say it’s been, it’s been in the market for so long, and so many of our clients have been so happy with finding, like, a drawback program, knowing that they’re eligible for drawback essentially, you know, to summarize, I feel like I’ll use one code that a client of ours used, and I mean, it’s something that we’re very proud about is, you know, saying it’s like finding a $20 bill in your pocket, except it’s millions. That’s drawback. That’s absolutely drawback for you, because you didn’t even know that you’re eligible for this. And then suddenly you see that, you know, it’s millions, and the feeling is the same taking a $20 bill from your pocket, except it’s in millions, and then everyone’s happy. That’s drawback. Well,

Lalo  32:55

I have, I have a story that Troy, you know, who was formerly the, I guess he’s the founder of CETA, but he’s no longer with a company. But Troy used to tell me this story, or used to tell this story, where this was during the pandemic that he had a client who, pretty much we all know how the pandemic affected us, a lot of us. And what they did is that they discovered, quote, unquote drawback, and because they didn’t have much activity going on, you know, they were not really able to manufacture so that he that company, kept their employees on staff, and he kept them busy by having them, let’s go them big through these past five years of imports and see what we can. And they actually kept their doors open with all the drawback that they got back from, you know, from all their claims. So so they didn’t necessarily have to rely on any government help or anything, and that was a story that Troy used to tell us. And I thought, wow, that’s that’s significant, because they did get millions back. Yeah, yeah,

Simran Dalvi  33:51

definitely, definitely. And it’s a tool, it’s something, I mean, I feel like everybody should at least see whether their drawback eligible. I mean, CBP is still working, and only the processing is slower, and as you can imagine why, and so definitely use this time to make sure that you know all your doctors are in a row, and then you can apply, and you know you can get accepted and find that millions in your pocket, I guess,

Andy  34:14

excellent, excellent. Well, I will say that, as with the the trade agreements there, you know, again, new, new opportunities are being created, especially, you know, right now we’ve got the UK situation. That’s one of the first ones, Japan and whatnot, that have actually been signed and settled. So the point being is where US companies now have an opportunity to expand their market possibly, and where they’ve not. And let’s say we’ll just talk about the UK for a second. Well, they may not have been looking, you know, there’s been a domestic company. I know that I’m right now in Central Arkansas, and there’s a lot of companies here. Our US economy is so massive, they only deal in us. Domestic Well, now there’s an opportunity for their product that’s manufactured to go over to the UK. Guess what? Some of your raw goods that you’re bringing in, or whatever, you may now be able to offset that and do a duty drawback, which is going to do two things. One, you expand your market, increase your sales, but also improve your bottom line by reducing your costs, right?

Simran Dalvi  35:26

Absolutely, absolutely. And that’s exactly that’s, I mean, well put, well summarized,

Speaker 1  35:32

that’s the business side of me. I keep looking and going, yeah, and there’s all kinds of things we could do here.

Simran Dalvi  35:37

Nothing else to add. I was like, well put, that’s, that’s pretty much it.

Andy  35:42

Well, listen, we appreciate you coming on and talking with us. And if there’s any new developments with some of these trade deals and whatnot, please reach back out to us so we can do an update. Absolutely, some things with the with the different trade deals that are going on. Because I know there’s a, we have the trade deals, but then I know there’s a some of the duty drawback requirements that are getting, you know, put into these trade deals. So that’s a good thing

Simran Dalvi  36:08

for sure, for sure. And yeah, 100% I would love to and thank you so much for having me, Lalo and Andy. This was, this was great. Thank you.

Speaker 1  36:15

Here. You look forward to have a good day.

Lalo  36:18

Folks. Have a good one. Cute. You.