How to Streamline Compliance Processes through Effective Data Sharing

Machine Automated Transcript: Folks, so we’re in for another show of simply trade podcast and it is going to be a good discussion today I am excited about this Lalo because we got to meet our guest out at TPM less the Trans Pacific maritime 24 conference, TPM 24 and Long Beach. And it was just, we had a mutual friend, they introduced us and we were sitting there talking in the lobby, I guess, of the conference. And I don’t know, Angela, if you picked up on it, but there were a lot of folks that were just coming up and listening to our conversation would hang out there a little bit and then they finally move on, because we kept on talking but lol I’m just this this is gonna be a good discussion today.

I think so too. I think I immediately and what’s funny is that it felt like Grant and Angela had known each other for like a while. But ironically or not ironically, strangely, they had just met the night before I think or that earlier that day. I mean, gosh, I mean, so I know if anybody wants to connect with Angela, you’re gonna instantly I mean, I think I don’t think she’s ever met. Someone once has that saying go?

Never met a stranger. Stranger.

Yeah, there you go. She’s never met a stranger, you know, she’s willing to talk to

that’s a Will Rogers from Oklahoma State, but they’re never met a stranger. So there you go.

And what about the fun, right?

And the big fun is gonna be okay, let’s see if I bastardize your name here. Whatever. Got it. I got it in Long Beach. But I was a shock. I was like, Angela is a Chaski Schakowsky.

So click kowski kowski.

Okay. So there’s the Z’s pretty much silent, I guess. Okay, so Angela kowski. So, and folks, just look, if you’re interested, we’ll have her contact information on the show notes. Because I guarantee you’re not going to sit here and be able to spell it out, you’re gonna have to look at it. Okay, so tell folks, basically, who you are who you’re working with now?

Yes. Okay. Angela kowski. I’m the managing director of manufacturing, distribution, retail and logistics for Hartman, executive advisors. And basically, we are an executive advisory firm, we demystify it for leaders and organizations and help folks figure out how to leverage it to achieve business goals. Oh,

I love it. I love it. And you know, so, folks, to our listeners, if you’re down on the front lines are in the middle management area. Angela’s this is going to be a show that as we talk through and Angela is going to be one of those contacts that you need to make sure that your upper management is aware of, as well as when you’re looking at it, Angela is going to probably be saying some things that you’ve been trying to push your own, getting, gaining support for some projects and different things you’re wanting to do. Well, sometimes you need kind of a neutral third party type person or group to be able to come in and, you know, say the same thing that you’re trying to do, but maybe in a different manner, and to gain that support. So this is going to be one of those that hopefully, it’s gonna be entertaining, because I gotta tell you what angel that you were just a pleasure to talk with. But in addition to that, you’re gonna learn some stuff, folks from Angela. And there’s no doubt she is definitely one of the sharpest tools in the shed. So I’m like, Oh, this is an Angela,

just to level set here a little bit. by it. I guess you all don’t do any development. It’s not like you’re putting together a software product. It’s not like you’re pushing anything, you’re you’re basically helping a client, leverage what’s out there and what fits better for their industry and their situation. And maybe take the tools that they have and probably analyze them and say, This is good, or this isn’t good. Maybe we should do that. That kind of it. Help, right?

That is such a good call. Thank you Lalo. So we are agnostic, we’re neutral. We don’t sell anything. We do not benefit from the technologies that we recommend. So what we do is we look at an organization’s goals, where are we trying to take this company, and then we create a roadmap and we execute that roadmap as part of a leadership team. So many middle market organizations can’t afford or don’t need a full time CIO or CTO or CIO. But you need somebody focused on cybersecurity and emerging technologies and data infrastructure architecture all you need someone who’s looking at the landscape, but it’s hard to have both a strategic leader full time and the tactical teams to deliver we don’t resell anything we don’t program we don’t code we don’t develop weird needing the organization through technology. So we might say that we have the right or wrong systems, we might say there’s opportunity to integrate these systems better, we might work with our executive team and determine and this is what you and I discussed, Andy, that our data strategy is not going to lead

to the kind of data outcomes that we need for us to be able to keep moving forward. So we as leadership are developing and executing a roadmap that can involve a number of other parties internal and external, that for us, it’s all about the right outcomes for a firm from a from a neutral perspective.

Folks, I’m gonna tell you, I’m if you’re listening to this, I’m telling you, I’m smiling bigger than a Cheshire Cat. And this kind of discussion I’m we’re gonna get into, I’m why I’m about as giddy as a filly on a spring morning, man, I’m telling you what this is gonna be pretty cool. Because in talking through this, you have a strategy if you were a company leader, and or department leader, whatever. And you’re striving to obviously eliminate exceptions, streamline your processes, make folks more productive, ultimately, reduce time, you know, reduce your cycle time in your supply chain, and getting the products from the manufacturing position or distribution centers, to your end product or in customer. So whatever that is, throughout the whole process, whether it’s an internal customer or external, you’re wanting to provide good information, good, you know, customer service, and basically deliver on your promises. Angela, I swear, this is gonna be great. So let’s talk a little bit about in today’s world, you hear and you know, a while back, it was blockchain was the buzzword and I mean, everyone all blockchain is gonna just save the day and all that. And then I’m like, kind of blockchains kind of fizzled out a little bit. It is phenomenal. And basically locking down the data and giving a definitive audit trail, so that if things are changed digitally, you can track down when it was done and who did it. So that’s a good thing. And it predominantly is focused more on the financial side of things than anything else. There’s some other applications, but blockchain itself is so massive and trying to make it work. It’s it has been somewhat isolated to the financial side. That said, Now the buzzword is artificial intelligence or AI. And it’s like, oh, my gosh, listen, like, you know, so why don’t you talk a little bit about what you’re seeing in the industry from an IT perspective on the application of AI, or is it still so early that yeah, it’s coming around, but it’s not quite there yet. Or, you know, is it all? You know, is this something where it’s just it’s kind of like the blockchain is it was all puffed up? Nothing?

I love this question. I love that. We talked about buzzwords and AI is having its heyday right now, right? I’m here to say it, AI is not new. This is not new. AI and machine learning have been around for a very long time. I also have one really critical piece of information for all the listeners, all the viewers, the entire audience, especially if you are an executive AI is not a magic bullet. AI will not cure all that ails you, there

is not going to replace all the jobs either.

Workers AI will not replace you. He’s not he’s not looking for your jobs. So AI is yes, I mean, there are so many problems that can be solved. And I will always talk about problems. First, what problem are we trying to solve? AI might not be the right solution for that problem. And if it is fantastic AI is a solution to many problems. As we discussed, data is the foundation for AI.

And so wait a minute, wait a minute. You mean AI has to use data? Hmm.

I mean, AI has to use data. And organizations have to care about data. And they have to have a plan. We have to have data stewardship, data governance, data hygiene. So if you think that AI is in your future, start planting those seeds. Now. dig the well now before you need the water, but truly get
your data house in order. And I think organization it’s it’s sort of like we could track this all the way back and we’re looking at data but it’s what are our systems doing? What data do we need? But so we start about talking with the problem. What’s our problem statement? What problem are we trying to solve with AI and there are many, it’s plentiful. And then how do we build up to Are those solutions, but we say just even before that everybody, every organization should have a data strategy should have data stewardship data, hygiene, data policies, governance, etc. That’s just fundamental. And so when you take the time to build that foundation, knowing that you’re building toward an AI or machine learning solution, fantastic. And that might not even be the solution, it might simply be that you want to work toward data driven decision making you as an executive want visibility into your organization, you want to be able to make really informed decisions, you want to be proactive. All that that didn’t lose your benefits that you yield from building this data Foundation. And yes, AI is one of those potential outcomes. Now, I do love to talk about AI, don’t get me wrong. So when we find solutions that can be driven through AI, there are so many applications, and I think it depends on the size, depth and breadth of your problem. So you have to have a broad enough data set to support some of the the decision making some of the processes that are informed by the underlying data. So I think there are a lot of questions that we ask before we say yes AI. But when we can start automating manual processes, whether it’s through workflow automation, or through one of these many tools that are coming out, let’s think about the problems that we’re trying to solve, where to invest our time, because there are outcomes that will save you time, that will save your frontline workers time, and headaches that will reduce the risk of clerical error. And I think that in, in this space that you and I were talking about, Andy, there are so many opportunities to reduce clerical work clerical errors, where we’re not saying the machine is doing all of the work, but we’re saying we’re taking part of that work, giving it over to a machine to make some some decisions or to just perform some of the functions, we still need the people, we still need the bodies, well,

and it’s gonna make them more productive. But let’s before we go too much further, the one thing you keep emphasizing here in this early discussion, is you’ve got to have a data strategy. And on that, I’m of the opinion now this is, you know, in looking at I agree with you, but the data strategy should be owned by not only the head of the company, or maybe the Chief Operating Officer, not the you know, everybody differs, well, that’s our IT department know, the data strategy, in my opinion, and I’m gonna get your comment on this should be owned by every department head, every director, and maybe even you ever down to the manager level? What is your data strategy for the information and the systems that you use the databases you’re talking about? I love the term I hadn’t heard that. But I love it, I’ll probably start using that data hygiene, you’ve got to clean your data, you got it, the cleaner your database is, well what does that mean a clean database, that means it’s up to date, it has been purged of bad records, but it’s kept up to date with current records, and you archive appropriately, then the old records, you’re not trashing them, your archive, and, um, so that your system runs more efficiently. You know, I always look at it this way and use this analogy, again, I’m dumb as a box of rocks, here’s I have to use very simple examples here for me to catch on. Right? I look at when you’re maintaining these database records, it is no different than if you were to take a trip. And you’ve got lots of luggage that you’ve now packed. And some of the luggage that you’re that you have are bags that have clothes in it that are 234 years old, that you haven’t really worn, but you’re taking them anyway. And as you’re going through, you’re trying to take all that through, let’s say the security because you’re taking it with you. And you got all these bags if they would let you to do it, you know all that. And in going through versus let me just take what I need with me the current

stuff and the older stuff you archive or you put it in you have it to where you’ve gone through it. How many times have we gone through and said, You know, I gotta go through my closet. I need to purge out stuff and get rid of stuff. Well, same thing with your data hygiene. I love that. So what do you think as far as the strategy plan of what I’m talking about there? Should it be just left to the head of the IT department and dictate to everybody else what they should be doing with their data? Or should you have a plan all the way down from every member of management?

The ladder, this starts at the top and it permeates the organization but I have to say this this is another of my favorite tenants of our belief is that there are no IT projects. It exists as an enabling function of the business. It is part of the business team. It does not live in a silo, it lives throughout the business. So if somebody is saying, Oh, that lives over and it No, no, because it lives within it lives within all of us. And I think that’s so that is a cultural. That’s a fundamental cultural shift for many organizations, it is part of the business discussions, they don’t get thrown a problem, we don’t toss the problem over the fence to it, and they’ll figure it out. It is at the table, and they’re saying, what outcomes are you trying to achieve? And then we’ll enable those outcomes. With technology, people process and technology enable outcomes. So the business is bringing the people and the process it is bringing the technology and these powers combined form, you know, really high performing teams, strong outcomes. So there are no IT projects, because it is part of the business. So when we’re talking about data, data doesn’t live in it. Our data strategy comes from our business goals and our business outcomes, and everybody has to be in sync. And that’s why it really does have to come from the top because you need folks to say to everybody at that table at the executive table all the way down. We all play a role in this. And any gap in our in our chain here is going to create problems and we’re not going to achieve what we’re trying to achieve. I love your your packing example. Andy, I want to I have a really a more recent and logistics related example here of the challenges that we can face with data. So we’ve been talking about real time visibility. For as long as I can remember, in the logistics world, how do we get real time visibility into our shipments? How do we get real time tracking visibility? Someone’s got the information, how do we get it? Okay. So yes, a steamship line has it a terminal has it a port might have you know, every buddy along the way might have access to ETD eta, actual date of arrival is the container on the vessel, etc, etc. So all those those are data points along the way. So imagining if we want to make decisions about a shipment based on shipping trends, right, I want to make decisions about my future orders based on trend analyses from past shipment data. And I need to have good tracking information to do that, right. Because I have my data warehouse, my data lake, my data lake house, toss out the buzzwords if you like I need this all housed in a structured way. And I want to make decisions about how I order how far in advance say what are my shipping mode? How can I do that if my tracking information that I’m using is the baseline for what those lanes are all actually taking what I’m what I’m realizing versus what the published transits are? How do I know how to make decisions if I want to expedite a shipment if I
need to airfreight something, if I don’t have the kind of trend analysis. Now here’s the best part. When we talk about data strategy, I want you to think about three data sources for an ETA three data sources. Let’s imagine I have one coming from a central tracking system or tool, you know that I that I might subscribe to. One might be coming from a steamship lines website themselves, which we presume those two would be the same. And one might come from a manual override from within. So imagining that I can override that field and change an ETA. And then I can get a data feed coming in automatically from one of those other two parties that can override my manual override. And then I see it. So now I’m acting on what is in there. And I don’t know that it’s been overwritten. What’s my policy for overriding? How am I choosing to completely and to adopt those changes over and over and over? What’s what’s my true north? That’s one field. And I faced that challenge across a number of fields. But that challenge for one field can can fundamentally change the inputs to my decision making visibility. Well,

but here’s something that I want to challenge you real quick on something, because you just said it’s like, what if I want to make a decision based on trends. And but then you’re given an example of a current shipment. So I to me, I separate the two because here’s something that I want to say that from, from my perspective, whenever I was promoting the different projects, I want to get a copy of the data and put it offline. So in other words, I want to get the information that I can run statistical reports off of I can run and look at trends, I can look at different things. But I got all this massive amounts of data. And so I will also say that there are so many there’s a 3d data storage type methodology now that quite frankly, I still am a little uncomfortable with it. I’m kind of old school give me the old relational databases with the flat files. Okay, so I have lots of tables. I have all this stored in different places. But for if I’m willing Can it trends, alright, now I go to my current data that’s flowing in, that may be 24 or 48 hours current stuff, maybe you need a week’s worth of current data, usually not that that’s not usually the case. But it’s like, Ah, you got current information. The trends of the history will show you where to look to see if there’s a particular issue. So to your point, I want to look at old information and look to see what those trends are. Every you know, I’m looking at everything from a monthly perspective, what are the cycle times I may even get it down to? I want to look to see, what is my estimated time of departure on this particular lane? on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you know, by day of week. And now I’m going to say, Okay, well, let’s look to see what we’ve got, oh, you know, what, this left on a Wednesday, and the cycle time is two days more if it leaves on Wednesday than if it leaves on a Thursday, gee, you know what, maybe I need to work on the party and on Thursdays on this particular line, or whatever the case may be. That’s where I think that comes into play. So I hope I’m not being overcomplicated. But to me, too many folks want to say I need current data. And I want to look at the history. So they’re trying to run queries. My point is, is this off of historical data, as well as current data, and then they bog down the system and wonder why it’s running slow? Well,

and I so my, my position on this is current data, so those current shipments become part of the history. And what I’m really looking at is what goes into history becomes part of your trend analysis. So what’s our policy on what goes in? Like, where do we lock it and say, This is the official, this is what goes into the archives to become part of my decision making part of my trends analysis, but and I hate this cliche state saying, but garbage in garbage out.

Oh, I was gonna say that very thing. Because ultimately, that’s where I mean, AI is not going to work and automate things if you’ve got bad data. But the old adage of garbage in garbage out was when computers first started coming out, and it was really paramount with PCs or personal computers. When it started hitting in Anambra. I said, Well, I’ve got this personal computer now. And I’m going to start working with it. And guess what it didn’t work was like, Yeah, you’re putting in bad information in it. So yeah, it happens today. It’s, it’s so paramount.

Absolutely. So that’s, I mean, maybe a more recent example, or a more tactical example. But I think that in, in the views of just data driven decision making, what you said was interesting, the kind you know, that the tables that you’re accustomed to using are what you’re accustomed to doing with it is how are we leveraging technology to get us those outcomes those results faster? How are we doing a data visualization tool, go get me this information and tell me what to do with it. You predictive, be prescriptive, helped me make changes upstream in my supply chain, because I now have access to good information that’s telling me if you don’t sail by this date, yeah, you’re gonna miss this product,

you’re gonna miss this or to your, your fantastic example of on a Wednesday, not good, you want it you want to be looking to this or what routes etc. So I think it just that the ability to give leaders, executives, that kind of empowerment is huge when they know what to do with it, and what problem so

circling back to TPM 24, you moderated a session there, I kind of want to tie it into what the government is doing to provide data let’s call it because I tried to understand a little more about what was going on with their with that program with Flo and and then the guests that you had on there, which was from PetSmart, I believe, and and how they use that data to predict supply chains etc. So, can we tie it all together with what you may have been talking there about flow and what you and Andy are talking about right now, and how all that only only because of this, let me also say this because we recently had and I keep on referring to him a lot Binion and CRO from CBP. And on his end they’re talking about something called the interoperability program or or or project that they’re working on, which is very similar on the supply chain aspect, but more on the traceability of it like is this. He used the example makeup, you know, something that that affected somebody because it was fake makeup. You thought it was like legitimate stuff that has a fingerprint, and it tells you no Oh, this is not what you’re thinking you’re buying, etc. You know, they’re talking more about like, like the supply chain tracing part. But, again, I’m not asking you to comment on that. But you know, how does it flow? Are these government programs or projects are helping the industry? You know, whether supply chain and I know, flow is one from the Department of Transportation. So that’s the reason I’m bringing it up. Yeah,

flow is a really interesting program. And I think so yes, we had at Oldham from PetSmart. And Andrew Patterson from the D O T. And I think that with flow, it’s, it’s an elective program. So folks can choose to participate. Right now, it’s focused on importers. And as an importer, you can participate and you are agreeing to provide data into the program’s database to then be aggregated, and then you get access to these the aggregated data output from all participants. So it’s really helping to inform folks who only have their own subset of data from which to make decisions. So we talked about the breadth of data needed to really leverage AI. Well, this is giving you aggregated, you know, much a much more broad sample size of data are much more broad data sample, to then make some decisions. So if you choose to participate, you provide your resume, you get everybody’s out. And it’s it’s it’s totally, you know, scrubbed, it does, it’s not providing identifying information, but rather you’re still getting it most of the folks participating or very large organizations. Now, I will say this, I love that, that the the flow initiative, they’re making the barrier to entry very, very surmountable. So they’re kind of, they’re giving you options, the format, how you choose to interact, how you engage how you how you integrate how you get the data back, so that people can reasonably participate. So it’s not as though you have to have a robust tech department to be able to be a part of this program. It’s just I think, a matter of folks deciding it’s worth the investment because you have to be able to provide in in a certain format, and they give you some flexibility, having access to that intelligence allows organizations to then make again make decisions. So how do you make decisions about your shipment routes about congestion, I think for for equipment providers is where am I staging? Or my staging equipment? Now? How am I How am I allocating my resources? So it’s a very interesting program, I think as it continues to expand and grow, we will see greater application and I hope we see more adoption and middle market where folks could be taking advantage simply by choosing to participate, a smaller importer could actually get access to large subsets of data with which they could make informed decisions. If this is a pain point they’re trying to solve, let’s go back to those pain points. If this is a pain point they’re trying to solve, they could actually have access to intelligence that allows them to make decisions.

Well into that. Alright, so to make this reality, one of the things I was starting to go with, is you’re talking about information. We’ve already talked about, you know, a clean database of data, a, an IT strategy, if you will, as a whole. So let’s talk about how to make this reality. What do we need to do, there’s going to be this isn’t a case where you can just flip a switch very rarely do I know anybody to be able to say, Okay, we’re going to incorporate and integrate data feeds, so that multiple people within a company can benefit from it, as well as then, who do we share information with as far as the government entities being a US government or be a non US government? entities? So with that, I guess there’s the scenario, yours, that strategy, as you’re looking at it, I know that I have always had a particular approach to pulling things together. But before I, I guess, compromise our discussion, and, and where you would go is like, so what do you do is like if you’ve got a leader of a company that says, Angela, I want my company to be you know, as far as data flows, I wanted to go through they’re like Greased Lightning. And I want people to be efficient, and I want to eliminate exceptions and all that. But what do I do? Where do I start?

How do you how do you how do you what do you eat an elephant? Is that that one bite at a time? Yeah, there you go. That’s it. That’s it. Yeah, I this is my position. What’s our greatest point of pain? What’s going to yield the greatest return? Let’s start there. I went I’m sorry. I want to make sure I go back to your question. So if a leader says I want x, it’s not about information flow as much as I mean it is, but it’s really about the tact. Go, how can we execute? How do we know what’s coming? And I want to I’m trying to tie this really tightly back into sort of this space of global trade, but it’s certainly applicable across the board. It’s where are we investing clerical time and resources? Where are we? Where are we doing work that is repetitive, that we could be eliminating, where we’re doing calculations? Where are we? Where are we having to dig in, and let’s focus on the things that we couldn’t necessarily automate. So we can’t you know, those are the pain points, I if I can’t automate something, you know, that’s not going to be your data source? I’m trying to, you know, it’s such a big question of where to start? Well, it’s

a big question, can I offer a suggestion and then let me let you take off with it, okay. I have actually personally done this several times, and it is a held a meeting or facilitated a meeting, let’s put it that way. And I usually so folks listen to this is that this is, you know, this works. I’ve actually seen it work. And it is been so much fun that I’m telling you it is just a blast. But you got to have an executive in a company high enough to sponsor the meeting. So it current transcends across different silos, you may not be able to get everybody in your company in the different areas to do it. Okay, take what you got and go from there. But here’s what we did. Is we asked for, say, we believe we can and we’ll just narrow the focus, we believe we can reduce the cycle time in our supply chain. And the objective is to see if you can reduce it by four days. Now we know we might be able to reduce at least one day, but getting people together, your objective is to reduce your supply chain, from this factory to the end customer by four days. If we can do that, the benefits to the company will be astronomical. But here’s what I need. I need a representative from our customer service department. Another one from our accounts payable, another one from accounts receivable, another one from our it from our compliance from logistics and transportation, your warehousing, and you’re purchasing or sourcing. And you get people from different areas, you could even include your legal department. But the point is, is that as they come through the it needs to be at least that middle management. And as they’re coming through, I started going through the process and say, let’s walk through what happens. We’re going from this location to another and there’s a flowchart. And there’s three sections to that flowchart. So there’s a timeline, there’s the physical movement of the goods, there’s the data that is

actually in there, and the data would be the customer order. Then there’s the entry there’s the the the pick and pack order from the warehouse to the delivery dollar. And then there’s actual hardcopy paperwork that’s moved through. And it could be digital paperwork, but it’s still hard copy, if you will. And looking at all three of those elements. And as we go through this, like now, where are the exceptions? Here’s what’s supposed to happen. What goes when it goes wrong, let’s talk about what happens when it goes wrong. Customer service, tell me what just irritates you to death when you’ve got a customer order. And you’re not getting the information, what happens and they let them talk through that. And then the accounting side, okay, accounts payable, you’re ready to pay a bill, and invoices come in for services rendered for whatever it is, but you don’t know who to charge it to? What do you do what happens and let them talk through that and go through all those different things. And where I’m getting that is, what bubbles up are the exceptions. And the exceptions themselves, when you take it back to the process comes back to you know, the supply chain in that and you can pinpoint where it’s at. But 99% of the time that I see in it, the exceptions are caused by a lack of information. All right, so to that point, then we go through we looked at it’s like well, what do you do with what I give you remember those that with the quality assurance and process improvement, but when we’re talking about sharing data or information and whatnot, that like for example, as simple as is accounts payable, they need a cost center or a department code to know well who’s responsible for this particular invoice. That cost center has always been there and it was there when they hold transaction started. But why didn’t it make it all the way through to the vendor? And back? Well, the purchasing and sourcing folks may not have set things up, right? All I’m getting at is as we’re going through that, if you have a meeting of people going through and looking at that, what could you do from your perspective, to say, Okay, we’re documenting these exceptions and all that. Now, what do you do as far as your information and all that, so I’m teeing it up for you? Is

this the urge to take this, I love the example that you just gave. And so I want to take it back five years ago, when we were implementing the system that supported exactly what you just said. So there’s a cost center associated with it from the very beginning, and how does it get its way there. So when we talk about systems, it’s not, you know, we have the system we have is the system we’re working with today, given the opportunity to look at our system systems, because there could be multiple and we have an integration of systems. It’s this for me, and this is something that is so core to how we operate is when we’re doing system selection. We look at process in exactly the way you just described. So we’re saying if our system doesn’t enable us to do this, is this system really enabling operating efficiency, effectiveness, client delivery, customer service, etc? That, for us is a key indicator, if we’re already in it with a system? Is it the right system? If we’re about to select a system, what you just described is exactly how we need to start, which is what are our requirements? And it’s not how must we operate? Because the how is how we make the cake. The what is that we need that, you know, accounting, you know, that information needs to come in at this juncture at this stage of a process. So for us, we get involved right now a lot with people saying my system does it doesn’t do what I need it to do. And we say, Well, did we did we pick the right system? Did we over customize the system and now it’s it’s it’s a shell of its former self, did we not are we not taking advantage of the system features because in this is natural, this isn’t a criticism, this is natural, this is operating within a system is an iterative process, people live within it, leaders come and go, it gets changed, it gets modified, we bolt something new on to it, we layer something else in with it, and then it becomes it becomes how we operate. But when we look at systems, we take exactly what you’ve done there, Andy, and we say now we have to layer those processes of transforming inputs into outputs, understand what we have to do, what outputs we’re trying to achieve through a system. That’s what should be enabling our business and our operations. So people process technology, I’ll say it again, this is this is where those decisions are. So as a leader, if you say I need to cut for days of cycle time, and we say what our system, you know, how is our system accommodating that? How

is our What role is our technologies, our platform playing in our ability to, to deliver on that ask? And if it’s if it’s not optimized to it great, Let’s optimize if it’s not up to the task? Well, let’s consider the return on investment for the organization, pulling it out and putting something more effective in

well, and to your point, though, here, here’s the thing that I love that people process and product, is it

technology.

Technology? Okay, well in. Alright, so most of the time, when we start talking about some of the things you you were talking about, have we maximize the efficiency of what we’re using? And almost 100% of the time, I will say the answer is no, because it in it. And as an example, folks listening, most of you are going to utilize Microsoft Office. Alright, and I’m just going to limit it to just Outlook, Word, Excel. And we’ll even throw in PowerPoint. on that. You’ve got reports to do on a regular basis, how many of you have maximize the efficiency of those four applications within Microsoft Outlook, that would enable you to generate a report that you’ve done day in and day out, you know, month after month answering or whatever? And have it done and within less than 30 minutes? Because it can pull the data if it’s standard data and all that most of us would say no, and that’s one of the things just in your own systems. It’s like, you know what, I need to add a couple more data elements in this process. Because my system will allow me to put in and a customer order, let’s say, but I’ll leave some fields blank because I’m like, well, that doesn’t mean anything to me. But on down the line it does. And so if I put two more data elements, the cost center and whatever else, then guess what on down the line, those people are much more efficient. Hence, you’re able to reduce cycle times days build outstanding, that’s money in the bank, to, you know, eliminating exceptions where people are spending time tracking down information they didn’t need to have. So it comes back to moralise the people and the processes that can be tweaked. And then the system itself could be maximized while you’re looking at and assessing that we still have the best system, or do we need to look at enhancing it. But you don’t need to look and say, I need to get a new system before I can, you know, do better.

Yes. And the process of getting a new system is painful. Nobody ever says, Oh, I hope I can change my ERP today. I mean, it’s it’s, it’s nothing that people look forward to doing. It’s disruptive, and it’s taxing on your frontline, who are already very likely. And so you really do have to evaluate is this going to deliver something to us that to your point? You know, what, what are we doing with this? Is this? Is this a worthwhile endeavor? And are we setting ourselves up for success? Because a lot of folks then want to try to do it, we’ll do it ourselves. We’ll do it our own way. But there are so many questions that you really do have to ask so that you don’t find yourself in this exact same position three years from now. Oh,

phenomenal, phenomenal. So I so we get people together, you start looking at it, you start pulling things together. But as a leader, I guess the scenario there is that in my from my perspective, and you tell me if this is where those that have utilized your services, that have probably maximized your services, if you will, and the benefits thereof, if they narrow the scope, rather than the shotgun to cover everything is like let’s just zero in specifically on this part. This line segment this supply chain,

this, I want the accounting process to be better I want the customer service, you know, how can we eliminate exceptions or whatever in this particular area? And if they do that you’re going to zero in on what should be a people issue a process issue or a technology? Yep.

It’s absolutely fair. And I would say that when we the conversations that we have, and again, we always tie things back to we always tie the conversation back to you what are our business goals and objectives? What what are we trying to achieve as an organization? Is it expansion? Are we going through? Are we looking at acquisition? Are we looking at you know, being acquired? Are we what is it that we are thinking about in our business? And how are we readying ourselves for that? Let’s emphasize you know, you have of course you have problems that we have to solve. You have incidents that we have to to navigate manage, but when it comes to how do we prioritize limited resources, that’s time and money? How do we prioritize where we’re investing our time and money? We we go all in, in a kind of governance process around that kind of investment. Because we know there’s limited resources in every firm. I

love it. I love it. Folks, I gotta tell you this is I mean, Angela, you and I could we could start going in a whole nother area here. But But in that due to time, we’re gonna have to, you know, cut this off and go from there. But I will say I want to ask a follow up question based on all our discussion here. When somebody finally gets to that point, since your software development in software sales, and days gone by while Have you gotten into situations where you may have had a good product, and companies ready to start considering software companies or a new system or whatever, as Angela said, It is painful to deal with a new system. But have you gotten Have you seen situations where there have been corporate politics we’re different people have their agendas or maybe their friends or this or that or whatever the case may be that they’re trying to push one company over another rather than really doing an apples to apples comparison of things.

That always happened with us. I mean, we were I mean to answer your question yes. I mean, this happens because and it’s mostly having to do like he said like internal politics and kind of like I’m really close to the company you know, I’ve been with him a long time and then in comes a new guy and he’s like No, this offers a lot better because I used it before and then you know and and then the IT guy comes in and says we’ll wait none of them talk to the main system like the CRM for example a CRM Sorry, wrong, wrong industry. Sorry about that. But you know, it doesn’t it doesn’t necessarily talk to my other systems, etc. You know, so how are you? How are we owing to Yeah, exactly, you know, ERP, that’s what I was trying to say. How? But yeah, it happens a lot. And I bet, Angela with you dealing with this, I mean, he, you get in the middle of this, it’s, I guess it’s actually cool because you’re coming into this with no. dog in the fight, let’s call it right. I mean, it’s like it’s not my software. I don’t know what you guys you know your politics or anything maybe but I’m telling you this is the best solution I’m that’s my guess I guess that’s the cool part about you coming in as a independent consultant on that.

And I use that analogy that we’re test driving the cars, and we have a vested interest in what car you select only in that we’re going to be driving that car. So as it leadership, we need to pick the best car for this organization because we have to drive it, that’s the only interest that we have is what’s the best choice for the customer for the company, because it’s going to be ours to deal with. And we always say that, you know, software salespeople are great at making their system look like the best

possible choice. If you don’t task them with no, show me how it handles these use cases and you dig in and you pick and you scratch and you really get in there, then you you kind of see how it would really work for your organization. So it’s it’s that that process of somebody coming in and and kind of getting rid of the the easy parts of the demo and saying no, we need to see how it does x. That’s where you get the I think the real story.

Well, and to that point, let me let me say this is that, Angela, when you’re talking to an executive at the beginning of a project, is there anything that you’re going to give them some guardrails, if you will, or something to say, okay, look, here’s what normally happens, they’ve engaged you. So it’s not a case of selling the contract and services like, Okay, let me tell you what’s going to happen. And the you go through a process to say, and they themselves, that top leader may have some prejudice towards a system or whatever, that’s fine. But do you put up some garbage this is a this is what’s going to happen, we’re gonna go through, we’re gonna get to a certain point where all that here’s the things too, that you can maybe engage in to do yourself, procedures, people training, people, advancement, whatever. And now you’re ready for systems? How do you give them some guidance to say, look, you’re going to have to maintain some neutrality here. You may have some prejudice yourself, but also be aware, you’re going to have people under you don’t think for a second that they’re not going to try and sit there and, and feed you online just to get their away, you know, you’re wanting to find those people that when it comes to the solution, they’re not all hat and no cattle, you want somebody that knows what they’re doing, and they’re coming in with some results and go from there this day? Are you able to what what do you say to somebody up there,

the very first thing that we say is that the indicator of success of a major system conversion is executive level buy in and commitment to the project. And that’s, that’s one of the key indicators of if you will, or won’t be successful is that you have to we have to be bought in from the top down. Messaging to the organization starts from the top. This is what we’re doing, why we’re doing it, it’s driven by outcomes that will benefit every level of the organization. And then we also talk a lot about dedicating resources. I think sometimes executives think that it takes less to do a major system conversion that it really does. And it’s a really big tax on your frontlines. So we start setting that groundwork of, you’re going to need more people supporting this project. And they will be sometimes wearing multiple hats. And we need to be sensitive to that. So we don’t get fatigued within the process. And then we talk a lot about the requirements gathering and we like to set the stage of we are not going to be asking people how they do what they do, we will ask the what what must you do, you must you know, deliver, you must make a cake? Not how do you make the cake today, because we tell executives, you are adopting a new way of operating to truly leverage a system which is a big investment, to gain those the returns that we’re expecting, we accept that we are changing the way we operate. And we’ve got to be prepared for that. Well,

and one of the things I always say when it comes to a new system, or enhancing your current systems. One of the fundamental, I guess, models that I look at is saying the system needs to work for the user, not the user for the system. So a system that comes along needs to enhance what a user is doing and make them more productive, but not make it so bureaucratic that it loses flexibility for an operation because if you You You can make a system idiot proof and you’re preparing in your requirements and all that. But the problem is, then it’s the system is ratcheted down so tight, that if there’s an exception comes up, there’s no flexibility to handle it.

Absolutely. And this system, shouldn’t it should enable operations technology is an operation, an operating function, or an enabling function technology enables the business? Well,

it’s with that as Angel. Is there any last comments from your perspective for a company that, you know, especially a company leadership, that is they’re looking at this? I think you’ve already said it the people process and technology is you need to give consideration to that. And have a IT strategy or a data strategy and and go from there. But any more than that,

I would say yes, that having a roadmap that aligns that ties directly to your business goals, to your strategic goals, though your strategic goals, your strategic planning, SMART goals, it should be enabling toward those goals. So where you are investing your time, your roadmap should be built, and you should be able to clearly align your IT roadmap to where you, as an Executive leader are driving an organization, you should be committed to that level of alignment, you should be governing your investments of time and resources toward achieving those goals. I think that’s a really important takeaway for an executive to think about.

I love it. I love it, folks. Angela kowski is one that is a phenomenal resource for you. We’ve had a great discussion. I’m looking forward to some more discussions with you because this has been fun,

loving desert. Fantastic, thank you.

You’re great, you’re great. Well, with that folks, I get we’ll have her contact information on with our show notes. We also you can send us emails or contacts. Information will be out there as well. Reach out to us on LinkedIn and send us some comments that way if you want to connect with myself or Lalo. And, and Angela is like again, what a pleasure. Thank you so much for being on our show. It’s been fantastic. With that, folks. We’re going to say goodbye and have a great day.