From Curiosity To Head of Trade Compliance

Machine Automated Script:

hello everyone. Welcome to the simply trade roundup with me. Annik, you should know me by now, but if you don’t, I’ve been doing the podcast for a while now, the roundups and I have a little bit of a different category now, which is called careers, where I interviewed different people on how they got, where they are, what their journey was. And today is a very special one, and I’ve been meaning to do this one before we get into it. Today is the 27th which is my favorite number, as you guys know. And yesterday, you guys, I always mentioned this. Taylor Swift got engaged. I think Lalo is gonna make fun of me for putting this in you know, everyone needs to know this, and I have to bring it up. And maybe Cindy Allen will have a little bit on it Friday. And we all know she’s the Taylor Swift of trade, but she’s not the star of the show today, because I have a I have a whole nother star, which she truly is. I have Amy Morgan here with me today. I’m a highly respected force in the global trade and supply chain industry, especially by me once I once I got to know of her and the researcher a little bit more and got to meet her. I was a little fan girl. Amy is a vice president of trade compliance at Altana technologies, an AI company who we’ve interviewed a few people from we’ve had the CEO and we have Peter on awesome people. She’s also known for her innovative approach leadership and commitment to advancing compliance solutions for governments and businesses alike. Also, you’ve worked with multiple companies, you know, Microsoft, Amazon, Avalara and now Altana, of course. So she has been celebrated as a top innovator, and is a mentor and advocate for women in trade and technology, and I am so happy to introduce you to our audience. Amy Morgan, thank you so much for being here. Anna, that’s a great intro. Thank you so for well, I already said this, but thank you so much for being here. I know you have a crazy schedule. Probably there’s so much going on in the trade industry, and you’re doing so much. I mean, you, I kind of want to get into that real quick. You got into the trade nerd so you have, like, your whole little community called trade nerds, right? You have hats. You have pins. I see people with pins. I don’t have one. I don’t have a hat either, but I want to get one the next the next conference. I see you. I will steal one. So you’ve kind of created yourself this little community that you meet up with people you you know, you do so much. What made you want to do that? Oh my gosh. Well, I’ve been wanting to do the trade nerds community thing for a while, but it was really this moment that we’re we’re in right now, where there’s so much chaos and so much uncertainty, and it hit me that everyone is a trade nerd now, right? They’re the all of us that been doing this work all of our careers, we’ve been trade nerds. We used to joke and call ourselves trade nerds and all these things. But now, because of tariffs and because of the need to understand our products and their origins and the impact they have on our business, the CEO of our company has to be a trade nerd, the CFO, the logistics folks, the product designers, the marketers, the sales people, everyone needs to be a trademark. So this community is really my way of trying to expand our network beyond just those OG folks, you know, and this is how we’re going to start doing that. I really believe that in these moments of chaos, we can use them as catalysts for for progress, and our industry really needs that. So I believe in this community, and I’m excited, and I can definitely hook you up with some ways. No problem, please. I will Okay. I want to go back to kind of your early days, because in trade, they say you don’t end up in trade by choice. You kind of end up, you know, just randomly in this industry. So let’s go back to your early days when you were a kid. What did you want to do? Or what were what was Amy like? Because I’m not sure if she was a trade nerd Exactly. Well, I don’t know. I’ll let you be the judge early days. Wow. Okay, so I grew up in Seattle, in the Pacific Northwest, and I’m talking like old school Seattle. Right before Amazon took over, Seattle was still a big port city. Everything was about shipping and Boeing and innovation. So trade really wasn’t an abstract concept. It was just kind of part of our local fabric. But I’m not saying like That’s why or how I got into it. I mean, I was a curious kid so super into puzzles, like jigsaw puzzles, and I still am. Yeah, I was really into understanding the why behind things, like, where did things come from? What was their origin story? I mean, I took Latin in high school just to understand where words came from, you know? So, okay, I did. I was always a joiner. I was always in the like, I had to be in the mix right all the clubs, whether it was cheerleading or band or yearbook editor or leadership, and not really because anyone pushed me, but because no one pushed me right. Yeah, like, I didn’t grow up in a household that was always talking about college or a career. So I really just carved my own path, and I joined everything, and I did everything and I got involved, and that was how I built momentum. That’s how I proved to myself that, like I could shape my own future. And I think to bring it back into trade, it was that early grit, you know, that taking initiative and asking questions and pushing through, you know, no’s that really stuck with me. I worked. I had to learn the balance between respecting structure and then finding creative ways to achieve a goal. And to me, that’s actually what trade compliance is all about, right? Like, it’s full of all rules, but it requires mastery and knowledge as well as, like, creativity, to solve the hard stuff. So I don’t know, I take from that what you will, but, yeah, no, I love what you’re saying now, and I feel like it reflects the person you are now, because you’re doing the same thing kind of you know you’re finding yourself around, you’re curious. So when you were, you know you were young, you were going to live, you’re curious, whatever. And then you go to high school, you go to college. When did you decide that trait was the career for you? Oh my gosh. So to answer that question, I sort of need to give you go ahead story. You know what I mean? Yeah, so you know how you say that Cindy Allen is like the Taylor Swift of trade I was thinking about that, and I’m like, I guess I might joke that I’m the Forrest Gump of trade compliance. I mean, somehow I’ve ended up in the middle of all of the biggest trade moments of the last 25 years. I mean, right place, right time, right curiosity. So if I go back, I suppose my interest in trade really started in college. You know, there was this moment in the mid 90s that was all about globalization. And like I said, Seattle was a bigger port then NAFTA has been passed the WTO Seattle round was it was in the headlines here in the Pacific Northwest, and I felt like the world was all converging right in my backyard, and I had to be a part of it, right? Remember, I just have to be in the mix of things. Yeah. So I created a job for myself at the World Trade Center Seattle. I interned for what is now considered that infamous WTO Seattle host committee that was the group that put on that 1999 ministerial and and then later, I interned for the poor Seattle, and I became super obsessed with how things moved, how things were connected, how man made rules could shape something as innate as trade. And that curiosity turned into a calling. So from there, I simply chased the action. So if you look at my resume, right, I joined Nordstrom in the early 2000s I was an EDI analyst, like super nerdy, and that was when retailers were just starting to scale their supply chain technologies. But then 911 happened, and compliance and security priority, right? So I found myself at this really crazy intersection of technology and trade and regulations, and that that moment was when I realized how much trade was the connective tissue of our economy, our politics, our culture, our daily life, right? So I felt so connected to the world that I just leaned all like I went all in on trade compliance, never looked back. And so to finish like that, Forrest Gump story. It was around that time where China entered the WTO global sourcing exploded, and there was this demand for low cost, high volume imports. So us retailers, they were expanding into new markets and categories, and I joined Costco, Costco Wholesale around that moment. So here you’ve got big box retail going global, and I had this front row seat. So then you go to 2010 I joined Amazon just as cross border e commerce was taking. Kicking off, and now today, at Altana, I’m using AI to solve some of these wild, thorny trade issues, tariffs and forced labor and geopolitical issues. And it’s crazy, because that whole path, like got me to this moment. This is the most meaningful and ambitious work I’ve ever done, and it feels so exciting to be in this role at this time. And in a lot of ways, Anak, I feel like I’m still just getting started. Oh, I love to hear that, because I think as when you’re young and you’re starting out, you’re like, Okay, first of all, you don’t even know where you’re going. Where is this leading to? How am I getting somewhere? You know, you want to be so successful. How do I get somewhere like that? And then, you know, the path can change, and it’s hard to even change paths, because you’re like, wait, I’m so comfortable here. What do I do to to get out, or what do I do to move up? Or what do you what do you do? And I think I that’s the hardest part, and knowing that you’re saying that you’re you’re barely getting started while you’ve done already so much, which is perfect, right? Which you should because then it never gets boring. And trade is not boring. Clearly it’s not. I mean, at the moment, it’s not, no, you’re a licensed Customs broker. How did you when did you decide you want to look at that really big book and say, Yeah, I want to take a test on this. I don’t think anybody actually just wakes up and just like, Oh, I’m gonna do this, I think so. Remember when I said that? It was that moment I was at Nordstrom just after 11, and I was experiencing that the retail, the trade, the regulations, the security, all these things were had come together. And of course, I wanted to be in the mix, right? And I joined the customs compliance department at Nordstrom, and all my, all my peers were licensed Customs brokers. So it was, it was, it was never really a question. It was just something like, Oh, of course, like, naturally to do this thing, and it was one of the hardest things, like, it was, there’s really nothing that truly prepares you for that test. It was never really a question. It was just, of course, it was just something, well, obviously you also wanted to get ahead, right? And, and I actually do have a question on the Nordstrom part. Did you choose Nordstrom? Because I know you’re in, you’re a little bit into fashion, right? That not I have gotten Correct, correct, right? Okay. Is that what you chose Nordstrom, or was that just, just a job that, you know, opened up and you’re like, Yeah, I’ll take it. Oh yeah, there was, I mean, back then, yes, fashion is has become somewhat of a hobby of mine. But back then, no, no, I was right out of school. I didn’t have any money. Nordstrom was a great Seattle company. They were hiring, and I was just trying to get a foothold in the in the trade business somehow, right? So for no Nordstrom was, was just an opportunity. Okay, so we’re talking about your path right now, and everything seems butterflies and beautiful. And you know, you worked yourself up, and now you have this amazing job, and you’re doing fantastic in the industry. What were some of the challenges you went through? Because I know it’s not all butterflies, and you’re just getting from job to job, and everyone loves you and whatever. What? What are some of the challenges that you encountered, you know, early on, especially, you know, entering the trade world as a woman. I don’t know if that was a challenge for you, but what was the overall kind of the stereotypes, I guess. Well, I think I’ll start, I’ll answer the question. But I usually don’t lead with gender when I talk about my story, but because i The thinking is that I want the work to lead. I want people to see, you know, the gumption, my Moxie, the ideas, my execution, my impact, because that is what got me here, but there were times I was the youngest in the room, like I started right out of school. I was an intern even before that, so I’m no stranger to being the youngest in the room. There were moments I was the only woman, especially back in my Port of Seattle days and in early technology. But early in my career, I was young. I was passionate. Always been passionate. I was sometimes labeled too much or too direct, too ambitious, too intense. But instead of like giving in to those stereotypes, I channeled my energy into trying to be excellent. I wanted to ask. Ask the best questions. I wanted to make myself indispensable, and I’ve been really lucky. I’ve had spectacular mentors who’ve had my back, who taught me how to carry myself in rooms where maybe nobody looked like me, or how to hold the line or have a backbone when maybe I wasn’t taken seriously, how to stand up for myself when I was being talked over or interrupted. And now that I’ve had, now that I’ve earned a seat at that table in a 25 years of work under my belt, I use this my privilege to make more space, right? I try so hard to be the kind of leader that I needed, especially for other women. I want them to know. I want you to know. I want everyone to know that you can be bold and you can be intense, you can be curious, you can be funny, just showing up as you are and still thrive in your professional life. So I don’t know if I answered all of your questions. Answered really well. I think those feelings are so valid, and I’ve definitely had those feelings before, and I’m sure I’ll have many more of those feelings, because starting out is hard, right? And being in this industry, yeah, I like how you said you don’t want to lead with gender, because I agree with that. I I align that you are just as great as anyone in the room, right? You should always know that, whether you are a man, a woman, whatever. So, so that answer was perfect, and it kind of, I feel like the people listening, and you know, we do have a lot of people that are successful listening, and they’re already up in their careers, but there’s also a lot of people that are starting off, and if, if people are starting off, and they can listen to this, and they feel like they’re too much, or they don’t really know that people respect them in the way they should, just to keep going and to to just do your best, and That’s all you can do, and it’ll get you places. And from there, you know, you’ve kind of went from different, I mean, no, it’s the same industry, but you went from Nordstrom to Amazon, I don’t know if this is the right, correct lineup, to Costco, and then, AI, there’s such different levels in the industry. How did you navigate that? Because you’re not jumping from Nordstrom to Amazon and you’re doing the same thing. Well, so yes and no, right? So when I started, I went, you’re right. You had it mostly Right, right? Nordstrom to Costco to Amazon and so on. It was intentional, but at the time that was just, I think it was more of my ambition talking. It wasn’t like I was intentionally trying to place myself at these strategic companies in these moments. It was more like, wow, Nordstrom was an amazing experience and a great company, but I was ready for more, right? I wanted more than at the time, we were only focused on North America, and I wanted more than that, so I go to Costco, and Costco is huge, and I had all the different types of products. I was in all different types of geographies. I was importing and exporting, and then I was ready for more than that. And you go to Amazon, and at that time, Amazon was just, you know, they weren’t what they are today. They were, they were still going global in a lot of ways. So I got the world and, you know, I just kept wanting more and wanting to learn more and wanting to learn more. So I, the way I navigated was really based on my own curiosity. I was just ready to move on. And I’m never one to be satisfied with complacency, you know. So when I get comfortable, it’s time to go. And that’s, I mean, that was really what was behind my, my early choices, and then I got into technology, and, well, there’s, it’s hard to get complacent right now in anything. But, yeah, that was the idea. I was gonna say tech. Now you’re at Altana, which is huge. You guys do a lot of government work. You work with a lot of companies. How was, how was it starting there? How was, how was the transition? I’m sure it stimulated you in different ways, like you can grow now to places that you haven’t gone before that, right? Oh, I, I don’t know, I joke, and I’m not, maybe it’s not a joke. I am serious. I think this is my last this is it, right? This is the one. This is the thing I’ve been looking for all my career. And when Altona came along, I mean, I’ve got to take you back, it was 2020. Covid had just started. There were all kinds of things going on in the world. Trade felt like it was sort of falling apart. There was a supply chain crisis, and there was geopolitical instability and this global pandemic. And when Altona came along, i i. I hadn’t really thought about AI, right? I didn’t see AI in my professional cards, and I really wasn’t looking for another trade related role. But when I met the founders, it was I was amazed. I was amazed at that people that didn’t come necessarily from trade. Had this vision and the brilliance and these ideas that it could actually be possible to use the latest technologies to make trade a vehicle for good in the world. I mean, I was, it was a very romantic idea, at least in my head, it was like, with better data, would would companies actually make better decisions? Would they make better choices for compliance, for the planet, for humanity, for their own companies? And today, I have to believe that that’s true, and it’s why I believe so hard in what we’re doing. But it was easy when I got inside the company and I started to understand the power of AI like aI wasn’t something that I artificial intelligence wasn’t it’s just not a term that I that was really in my vocabulary as a trade practitioner. But it didn’t take me long right to realize that, instead of reacting to problems at the border, what if we could use technology to see things we couldn’t see before, so that we could get ahead of all of our non compliance, we could actually design better processes. And yeah, that’s what that’s what drew me into it. I mean, I don’t. Some people ask, like, why are you trying to automate trade activity, right? Like, it’s not that at all. It’s actually the exact opposite. It’s about giving this industry the respect and the tools that it’s always deserved to rise up and really that the role of the compliance professional that is, that is what I believe in. That’s what I’m doing here. It’s because it’s such a traditional industry, it seems like, you know, people see it as this, oh, it’s been this way. Why? Why? You know, we’re doing it this way. Why do we need an AI? Or the AI is just going to disrupt us. It’s going to, it’s called, going to falsify our our outcome, or whatever. And when I talked to Peter about that, he had such good answers, too, in what way I mean, it was kind of inspiring. Because it’s weird you don’t talk about putting it inspiring and trade in the same sentence is kind of odd, but there’s so much inspiring to come with technology. I think what and what you can do in the industry, as in moving forward, you know, like having it more transparent, creating kind of a safer space, resilient and a sustainable supply chains, and I feel like there’s now, there’s a little bit of more emphasis on that. Before, they didn’t seem to care that much about it. When you say they do, you mean like companies, or I say the industry in general, like, I feel like no one focused on it. But I don’t know, maybe that’s i That’s just my perspective. Peter said something globalization, I think one, and then globalization two. And there’s phases to it. I think there’s, you know, covid happened 911, was like, a big indicator, right? You said, too. And then covid happened. And I think that’s what’s by, kind of a lot of these changes. And now looking into the future, that there is a place for trade to have, you know, a safer space and a more resilient space, and again, sustainable, hopefully even bigger than that, right? I mean, this is an opportunity to use technology to take the trade intelligence that we all as trade practitioners have in our brains, and democratize that across our companies so that we can take the take our trade intelligence and help every single function of our companies make better choices, right? And so this is where trade compliance rises above compliance and starts becoming trade strategy. I wrote a whole blog post about this because I think that’s the future of this space, right? Compliance, like the word compliance makes you think of something that’s retroactive, like making sure something I did was done, right? How about making sure that something we do is done correct from the very, very start, and now you’re using your powers, your compliance powers, if you will, for good, and you don’t have to be cleaning up messes all the time. You can be using that your your knowledge and your intelligence and the things you know to be more strategic. Think that is where I think we’re going, and that is what I believe technology can help us achieve. I agree with you, and I love that. I want to kind of circle back, because we’re going to wrap it up. We’re at 27 minutes right now. I looked up and it was 27 my brain is just looking for those numbers, looking back. So what is some advice you would give your younger self? You’ve you’ve been at the place where you’re like, I know this is what I meant to do. I’m inspired, and I’m still growing. But early on, what would you tell yourself, oh, wow, I knew you were going to ask this question. Well, and okay, so I think first I would just tell my younger self that she doesn’t have to choose between passion and success, that it is actually possible to have both. And then I would thank her for trusting her instincts and for saying yes before she felt ready, for chasing curiosity over certainty, right? I would thank her for seeking out those mentors and allies, and then for learning how to be that person for others. And then finally, I think I would teach her not to shrink. I mean, I’d let her know that she can be both credible and authentic, and to not be afraid to take up space. That’s when I was growing up that was something like, you know, oh, women, right? You have to, you know, conform to the professional environment. But I would, I would tell her no, I’d tell her not to do that. Lean into your curiosity and continue to be creative. And all of those things that you thought were quirks will actually open doors for you. And if I’m being really honest with you, I have to remind myself to do that even today, like not to shrink when you’re in a room that’s dominated by men, or when you are being interrupted or talked over, it’s easy just to kind of hang back. Yeah, you’re small, and I have to remind myself, No, you know, I deserve to be here. I have a voice, and I’m not afraid to take up that space. So I love that. I would say that’s a great answer. It’s inspiring me right now. This is a great way to start my morning. And then, okay, so the industry is kind of insane right now, and I don’t know if that’s if you feel that, or you know what it is, but what keeps you sane? Like, whether it’s working out, or, you know, eating, making food, or what’s something, something funny, I don’t know that’s, that’s what I would choose. But like, what do you do to stay sane? Oh, my goodness, okay. All right. So I am super fortunate to have really awesome people in my life, my husband, he’s my best friend, he and he’s always he’s the person that inspires me to try to be a better version of myself. Every day, I’ve got great friends. They all love me no matter how crazy I am or how much I want to talk about trade or tariffs with them, um, but, yeah, and then out, but, but aside from that, right? Um, you said you like to eat and all these things. Well, I’m always, I’m always hacking my health. Somehow, there’s not a that’s what I’m talking about. Yes, yes, you’ve got a fitness or health trend that I have not tried. Like, you can find me on my peloton. You can find me in my degree classes. Like, I don’t know. Something you don’t know about me is that I am a certified degree fitness instructor. It’s kind of like Pilates, really intense, really painful cousin. That just helps take my mind off of the things that are going on in the world. Because if you’re working out, you can’t really think about all of those other I also travel a lot. You’ve you said I’m everywhere. I am everywhere. I’m always moving. I’ve been living this bi coastal lifestyle the last six years, right? Which is been an interesting experience. So I’ve got a lot going on that keeps me, I don’t know if it keeps me sane, but it definitely removes me from the day to day so that I can continue to show up, you know, fresh and motivated. I love that. No, that all sounds very wholesome and just what you need, what you need to stay sane. Well, maybe, I mean, you didn’t say Martini that would have been in mine too. Well, there was a time, but not, not so much. Um, and what’s next for So, what’s next for you? So is, you know, is there any goal that I don’t know? Maybe you don’t want to mention this, because this is maybe personal, but is there any goal you would like to achieve, or is there anything this year that you’re like, Oh, this is still what I have to do, or this is something that I that I need to hit? Yeah, well, there’s. There are a few things, right? Like, first of all, just helping everyone navigate this moment. I know that sounds like a very politically correct diplomatic answer, but it is really true. I feel a sense of obligation to help this community through this moment. So So definitely, there’s, you know, just still a lot of work to to educate the community on the power that some of these new technologies do bring. So that’s really important to me. But personally, I’ve started writing a book, and that is becoming real. So that’s really exciting. I’m moving. I just sold my house two days ago, so I’ll be moving to a new place. I, like I said, I always have a million things going on. Well, that’s fantastic. So you have a little bit of, you know, when you’re doing your own life, rather than the trade life, you can kind of disconnect and you have other things going on. But, yeah, it sounds very much. Well, I I’m barely starting, you know, this is barely my start in the industry, but I feel like it’s a great route to go. I mean, this industry is kind of insane, and when I see people up there like you, it’s very inspiring. I’ve been loving to see how people are reacting, how people are changing, how people are making efforts to try their best to, you know, overcome these challenges. I think without that, I would probably be bored. So it is fascinating. I mean, this is a really remarkable moment. If you can remove yourself from the day to day, it’s a really remarkable time to be in this space. And you know, the reason you’re feeling so inspired is because there’s so much opportunity, there’s so much room to innovate. And what I said earlier about the trade nerds community, right? The idea that we can use these moments of chaos as catalysts for progress, I believe that, and so rather than dwell on how frustrating These times are, how challenging it is. And why don’t we think, okay, fine, this is the reality. This is we need to survive this moment. But how do I come out better? Right? What do we do? Inspiring. You can’t help but see the opportunity in that. Yeah, I agree. And Amy, I had such a great conversation with you, truly, I did. And I’ve been excited for this moment. I can’t wait for people to listen to this, to get inspired. For anyone you know, people that may already know you, but that may not know this, people that heard of you just a little bit, they’ll get to know you more, and people that are barely starting out, which I think that’s the most inspiring to them, because it it is a kind of an intimidating industry, if I have to say, but if you make your way through, I mean, you can get places clearly, you’re the living example. So thank you so much for coming on. I mean, you know, we’ll see each other at conferences and whatnot. And you know, I love to go to New York. That’s like, my favorite place in the world. But so thank you so much again, and I and I wish you the best on your journey. And I know you’ll hit all your goals. I know you will thanks on it. This was fun. Thank you. Bye.