Continuing Education and Certifications

*Machine operated script*

Lalo 0:01
All right, everyone, we’re back here on the podcast. And so New Year new goals new adventures were one. And so we’re starting off 2023 with a bunch of episodes, talking about careers, I guess, and what to do with your tray compliance and what to do, how to how to set up a plan and our dean. So today, I invited or we invite and by the way, Andy’s not on the show today. And so unfortunately, he was traveling and so we couldn’t be on the show. But which is just as well, in the sense that global training center the way we’re set up, obviously, everybody now knows from the show that we do training and education for trade compliance. And so that’s exactly what this episode is going to be about on education, furthering your career. And in this case, I actually like this because it’s a different area that someone may never have thought of, um, normally, when you’re in trade compliance, you think okay, well, so what’s the best thing we can do all we can become a customs broker? I mean, that’s, that’s the first thing that comes to everybody’s mind. Only because that’s about the only official government license that you can obtain. For you to justify that you’re you’re you’re in trade, or that you did your homework, let’s call it in trade, but there’s a bunch of other alternatives. We’re going to talk about a few here with our next two guests. We have on our on our show. We have Cynthia Wittenberg and we also have Kiko Zuniga or Kiko we all know him as Kiko. His name is Federico Federico Zuniga. But the whole world knows him as Kiko. Like everybody knows me as Lolo. That’s not my official real name. And you know, but anybody anybody knows me as Lalo. But anyway, so we have them there from the NAI, which is a division or the education arm of the ncbfaa. So we’ll we’re going to talk to them, we’re going to talk about different training alternatives, career development, et cetera, and how the, the FBI can actually help him for for professional development in this field in the trade compliance and I guess logistics, but we’ll talk a little bit more about that. Well, welcome guys, Cynthia and Kiko. Oh, good. Sure. So I started talking about that. And about the biggest programs that we know of, for the NAI for those of us in the circle that know about nei is the CES and CC, as you know, the certified custom specialist and the certified export specialist. And of course, there’s a next level, the master level of those. Our company global Training Center has always worked with you guys, as well as other providers, you know, education providers, and in continuing education credits for those that are already certified. But I kind of just wanted to start there. Let’s start with that. And see, you know, how we can discuss a little bit more about the CCS II s programs, and how that helps an individual, maybe an employer have their individual be certified as well, so

Kiko Zuniga 3:15
sure, certified customer Specialist Program certified export Specialist Program, were actually developed to help the service providers customs brokers, stay and maintain a certain level of knowledge on on international trade, this business changes rapidly. With every trade agreement with every administration. There’s always changes to the regulations and the rules. And if you’re not doing continuing education, you’re going to be hard pressed to service your clients as a service provider. What we found very early in the game was that importers and exporters need the same amount of knowledge that we that we do. And it’s actually providing or uplifting the level of professionalism within the trade community. Because all parties that are involved with the transaction now have a better concept of what they need to provide to have a good transaction that doesn’t get stopped at the border doesn’t run into penalties and fines and things of that nature. So that was kind of the background for both the import and export certifications, just for there’s nothing in college today that I love that addresses the practical aspects of international trade. There’s a lot of high level economics type courses and international trade. But when you talk about the basics of clearance, there’s no one that I know of that we’re filling that gap for people you know, and as a as a customs broker. My best accounts that I work with the best are the people that have an idea of what to do in the transaction. If I have an importer that It’s coming to me and saying, Hey, I don’t know anything about what I’m doing. But I, all I know is I want to bring a product from Mexico into the United States do that work, when we can do it, that’s not going to be my best account. Because I’m gonna have to really explain the whole process. I’m gonna have to explain why I’m asking for certain information instead of a just free flowing to me in the process.

Lalo 5:23
Right, right. So that that that actually in my previous life in the software field when I when I was in selling or producing and maintaining and helping clients in the software field of trade compliance, same thing your right I mean, maybe my software can tell you if your product qualified for NAFTA back then us MCA now but you not knowing why it qualified is could be a problem, because you can be putting in a wrong HTS number and there in itself, there goes the whole thing, right? I mean, so you need to know how you’re working. And yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So. So Cynthia on, under, you’re formerly from CBP. And we’ve we’ve talked to you previously, prior to this episode is about that about your career and CBP. But how does or does CBP see any of these certifications as, like, during an audit, for example, you know, and do they place value on that and say, well, they are educated? I mean, they will they go easy on you? How does that? I mean, I don’t know how that might be to your benefit.

Cynthia Whittenberg 6:36
I don’t know about the going easier on, you know, yeah, certainly one of the factors that they CBP considers when they are conducting a focus assessment, or, you know, even Well, hopefully, you’re not in the situation that you have an outright audit, but a focus assessment, they’re looking at how many folks you have that are certified, or who have their broker’s license, who are continuing their knowledge of the industry. And so it is, it is a factor that counts on the positive side of the scales, when they’re out there looking at a company’s business and their, their processes and their internal controls. Because what, you know, I remember when I was a national account manager, and maybe some of this medium sized companies, all of the processes, kind of you would have one person who was carrying the load. And that’s, you know, that’s, that’s a risk area, if every, if all roads lead to just one person, then that could be you know, a single point of failure should that personally, but if a company has can demonstrate that they have others in the company, who are educated as to the clearance processes, who understand the whole eco eco system, then that, again, that counts on the positive side of the scale. So it is it is it is definitely looked at, favorably.

Lalo 8:06
Great. Great. Yeah. And that, that’s more of what I was going forward. I mean, of course, you know, what, however, that that ends up, it ends up right, but, but yeah, that’s, that’s good. So one of the things I like to talk about, and I always emphasize, and I’ve, I mean, I’ve been in keycodes, ear for I don’t know, how many years about this is that. So we do training, we provide courses on one of them happens to be on preparing for the broker exam. And but here’s the problem, we have people who are experienced, and, and are working for companies, and at this point in their life, or even whether it’s early in their career, or later in their career. There’s no advantage to them being a licensed broker at this point, you know, they’re working for XYZ company. They’re the importer, they’re helping doing now, the import documents are exporting, I mean, because you do the CES as well. So they come to us, and they say, Gosh, I mean, all this studying for the for the broker exam and the low passing rates, and that scares the heck out of people. Of course, you know, when you see a low passing rate, etc. It’s all you see all that? And they’re like, How can I prove to my boss that I, that I, that I’ve got those skills, that knowledge and I’m a value add to your company, and a lot of prior to us even being in a relationship with ncbfaa or the NEI? You know, really our answer was, I mean, well, you can take our classes and you can get your certificate, etc, which they still can, but something that’s more, we decided early on that we’re not going to do certifications within our company, because I in my opinion, that certification carries as much weight as what your employer or you think it carries. I mean, there’s nothing out there that says this certification is In other countries, you can get it certified by the government in a way, it’ll weigh more, right. But I mean, here in the US, there’s really nothing, that the customs is gonna say, Yeah, their program is really good, etc. And it’s certified, and we approve it. There’s nothing like that. So we decided to go to third parties, and especially like you guys, that are nonprofit, that, that that create programs and we can support those programs. And so we tell people now, whether you don’t have to go to that level, you can prove that you are just as knowledgeable as a licensed broker by taking and getting certified in this CCS or ces program. So I don’t know, what do you see in that and and in your history?

Kiko Zuniga 10:46
So I’ll just, we’ve been doing the certified cancer specialist now for 1516 years. And the credibility of a program, any certification is how well accepted it is in the marketplace. Right? That’s the real factor. Does the marketplace recognize the designation for tours? No government is going to say, I mean, I can tell you it’s great. Right? That’s me, right? market is saying, Are you certified? As a certified custom specialist? Are you certified as certified export specialist, when talking about the market and plugin about importers, exporters, government service providers, I will tell you that the market has embraced the certified custom specialist as well as certified export specialist, as a provider of service. When I get an RFP in my office 15 years ago, I had one, it never asked me about training. If I get an RFP today for a new business, it actually specifically we’ll state on that RFP, how many certified custom specialists do you have on staff? How many Certified Expert specialists do you have on staff? Because they know that that is actually more important than Are you a licensed broker? Why? Because a broker gets a license at a particular point in time. And it’s stagnant. But if he’s in the program, and he’s certified, they know or they have a good feeling that these people are actually not only licensed, but they’re staying up with the program. And the people that are underneath them that don’t have a license are actually knowledgeable about the rules as well. So that that market, the market is what really develops the worth. I will tell you that ours is very, very well recognized.

Lalo 12:34
And I agree, I mean, again, only because I see and we get clients, of course, it Cynthia probably ceases. And you will and you did previously Kiko. And by the way, Kiko is the director of the NEI for the next, or I guess, by this time it done right. Now, Cynthia Cynthia is now the new directors. Yeah, exactly. So but anyway, you would see our requests from our customers to update their transcript because they need that continuing education to keep proving that which which is great, you know, and that relationship has grown. And it’s been great and in the sense that we now have in the market, like you said, Kiko is a mutual recognition that that people view the your certification and our continuing education as as a way to move forward and continue that program. So that, that’s really good. So. So let’s talk about this, Cynthia. And Kiko, again, has, in the past, exhaustively tried to explain to me how this program is gonna work for customs, because customs is going to require continuing education. I guess it’s been in the works for the past couple of years or so. But because of COVID, or I guess, other reasons, it’s just been delayed. Maybe we can talk a little bit about that.

Cynthia Whittenberg 14:02
It’s just the rule process in federal government, and the process for publishing a new rule. So if you recall, and you might maybe not probably down like three years ago, so customs put out an advanced notice of proposed proposed rulemaking. So that’s a step prior to the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, the NPRM. And that aprm was customs effort to gather information before making a determination as to what the new rule would look like. So they went out with this advance notice got a lot of input from the brokers from the industry, from those who use brokers who employ brokers, and went back, you know, into the government and then went about drafting the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking route, writing and drafting It actually is very tedious work. And it takes time and actually the shop in customs and border protection under the Office of trade regulations or rules. It’s actually it’s pretty small regulatory shop that writes regs for all of CBP, and actually some partner government agencies. So this was put in the hopper, like other proposed rules. And it was published last September, the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking so they came out and said, Okay, this is what we are projecting, the requirements will look like, and kind of a draft of the overarching program in terms of accrediting accreditation, what content would be eligible for continuing education. For example, in the in the proposed rule, it said that meetings would no longer be eligible customers Association means it would not meet the criteria for continuing it for the customs broker. But a conference could write a conference, a government offered trade centric event or webinar would automatically be eligible. So they kind of laid out some of that, you know what it would look like it even covered, if someone was drafting or writing content, that that drafter could get a certain amount of credits, but it wasn’t an hour for an hour, they had some model of how you would calculate how many hours you could receive if you drafted content. So it was pretty extensive. And so they had a 60 day comment period. And again, the industry was able to submit formal comments. I think there were like 27 comments received, I’m recalling some from associations and some from individuals. And then they go back in. And then to prepare the final rule, they’re supposed to review every comment, every point made, and they have to respond to each of the comments when they come back out with the final rule. So they’ll let you know that government agreed or they disagreed, or they made a change. And in the final rule, and then they published a final rule. So that’s where we are now we’re waiting for that final rule to be published. So it’s been over a year. And, you know, once customs drafts it it has to go through an approval process, through the Office of Management and Budget. So leaves, the agency goes to the department, and it goes to the executive office, so to speak, and sits there and then they look across our government and say, Do any of you departments have any issues with this rule? So that any department can have some, you know, opine and have some some something to say about it. And then it goes travels back to the agency, and then to finalize and then publish. So it’s it’s a lengthy process, even when there’s agreement, contention. So

Kiko Zuniga 18:09
that’s which this this has a lot of agreement. Matter of fact, 89% of the comments were for, or, you know, in favor of phaser law, which is a very high mark. And one of the things I want to point out while we’re talking about the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, so the Office of Budget management has to do an economic study on on any rule that’s coming across your desk, to make sure it’s not economically unfavorable. They want to make sure that this is fair for all people that it would affect. And so they did a study. And there’s actually a slide if you if you see the results of the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, there’s a, there’s a table there that talks about continuing education and the value that it brings to not only the government but to individuals. So in that in that slide deck, on that particular graph, there’s an eight to one ratio for people that are certified, and people that are not or people that are doing continuing education and people that are not doing continuing education, eight to one ratio on your likelihood of getting on it.

Lalo 19:17
Wow.

Kiko Zuniga 19:19
Penalties Penalties was 11 to one. Wow. So if you’re doing for any company, whether it be through the NEI or any your firm, if you have people that are on staff that are getting their continuing education, that company is likely to have an eight to one reduction in the in the in the process of possibly getting them on it. That’s exactly significant.

Lalo 19:45
Oh, yeah, of course you can. I mean, you need to stack the favors in your you need to stack the odds in your favor. That’s what I meant to say yeah.

Kiko Zuniga 19:55
huge plus in your favor by educating your staff whether it be through through global training, through our certified customer Specialist Program, any form of additional training comes, you know, comes with that caveat, right? Right. The nei really is really a kind of a clearinghouse for people like you and your company. There’s a lot of people that are doing training, but it’s hard to find all the possible options that we have. Well, the NEA is basically trying to bring it all together as schoolwork and say, here are all great people that are providing education, take advantage of it, get your credits, and we’re just adding that certification to that process to make it more recognizable.

Lalo 20:44
Right, and that’s what I’ve seen is that it, it’s, although you guys already do that, by providing a list of educators, you’re already per se filtering, like good content or or credible content, let’s call it a versus, you know, somebody or something that’s coming out there. That’s just a slight dig, that may not even be a good training, right? I guess, because you guys do that. Right? Right. No, right? Right. You always were all the I know, we have to submit every year and you we get recertified or re approved, I guess for CCS credits and ces credits. So that’s good. But um, so that’s the role, I guess, how’s the role of any AI with a government when then if that not if but when that gets approved your creditor or

Kiko Zuniga 21:34
we would be in a creditor at that point. And again, it’s not going to be a monopoly where there’s one a creditor? That’s right. Once the final rules are out, we’ll know more. But there will be a bid process that the government goes through to find people that would like to be a creditors and recognize creditors, and they’ll be criteria within that process, which is, again, what’s taking so long, these rules need to make sure they think through all of the requirements. Before they put that up. We will be at a

Lalo 22:03
creditor. Correct? Yeah. Yeah, several other

Unknown Speaker 22:06
people, I’m sure they’re gonna get into the game.

Lalo 22:10
Right. And I guess, just to clarify, and so nobody gets scared about this. This is we’re talking about the government requiring continuing education for those that are licensed brokers, right? I mean, it’s not if you’re an importer, you can continue to do what you’re doing as long as you’re importers. I mean, your import, I’m sorry, your brokers helping you doesn’t mean you need to get certified. It’s mostly your broker, I guess that’s a good thing. You ask your broker? How, how’s your continuing education credits, I guess? Have you kept up with it? Right? And

Kiko Zuniga 22:40
you’re gonna have two levels that you’re gonna ask one, you’re going to make sure, well, the government’s going to make sure that your broker is up to date, otherwise, license won’t be valid. Right? Because they’re gonna make sure he’s doing his continuing education. So that’s going to be question number one. But question number two is how many of your staff are certified? How many of them are keeping up with the regulations that were the certified custom specialist designation is going to be important? Right, exactly. Because because the government is not going to ask about all the employees that are underneath the broker. Right? It’s about the broker’s license. And as he maintained his knowledge, which is good steps, right.

Lalo 23:18
Exactly. No, yeah, that totally makes sense in that it’s true. It’s just that now there is a I know, I know, there’s always this argument about more government and more government oversight is bad for, you know, whatever, you know, you don’t want the government controlling every aspect of your life. But there are cases like this, you want to make sure somebody’s looking after you. And can you imagine I mean, we’ve seen it all the time, right? I mean, we, you you read about and you see how a broker just processed something for you when they shouldn’t have because they they should have known better, I guess, or they were not aware of that regulation, or whatever the case may be. I mean, you guys have heard it a million times more than we have.

Cynthia Whittenberg 24:04
I think it’s definitely a good thing for the industry. Because when you look at other professionals that have licenses that are issued by a government body, they have to maintain continuing education, you are your lawyer, and if you’re a real estate broker, they have to take so many credits a year, they have to a real estate broker. So here, we have in this field, a customs broker who’s been a linchpin for over 100 years in moving international trade, you know, in and out of the US. And it just is a logical step that the government would require that these individuals that they license maintain their knowledge of the industry, because it’s almost like you know, the government giving a seal of approval and then that person goes out and they show that seal and have approval the license but Maybe the person as Kiko mentioned, they never stayed abreast of things that are going on. And we know the industry is very dynamic, and it’s getting increasingly complex. And this is a step that is helpful to the industry writ large is protecting those who would enlist the services of a customs broker. And quite honestly, a broker is is integral to moving cargo these days.

Kiko Zuniga 25:26
You know, a lot of right after 911, Robert Bonner came out with these twin pillar concepts, facilitate trade, have more security, that’s a real delicate balance. And I always tell people that I speak with a customs broker, importers and exporters, anyone involved in international trade, we’re all so important to the economic health of our country, the better we can do our jobs. The better the flow of goods, the better it is for the economy. But at the same time, that’s that that facilitation site, but at the same time, we need to make sure that the data that we’re giving our government is good enough for them to do their security profiling, and make sure that it’s safe. And if you’re giving bad data, and because you don’t know that better than they’re there, it’s skewing the right result, right. It’s not helping the results. So along with this training, along with the certifications, along with the increased professionalism of this aspect of trade, all of that comes with better security, which CBP, that’s one of their charges to make sure each and every one of us are safe at our homes in the United States. So it goes way beyond just the transaction. It goes into the safety and security of our own people in this country.

Lalo 26:53
Correct? Yeah, that that is totally, I mean, very logical. I mean, it’s, it’s just like ya’ll said, I mean, it’s, you need to make sure your doctor is up to date with all the new procedures, you know, and your accountant knows all about the tax laws, you know, and, or else, either either you’re missing out on on on something, or you’re or you’re or you’re declaring something you shouldn’t be on your tax returns or whatnot. And so yeah, this is very much make sense for that. So it, it’s one of those who I mean, I’m not for big government, either, you know, so, in my opinion, this is one of the places where I do see it making a lot of sense and some logic and in adding some regulations. I don’t know, I guess any, I guess in the past that you are, as the name ncbfaa. In indicates a freight forwarders as well, or part of your, your group, how or is there any equivalent of education or anything on on for freight forwarders, I guess just the customs portion of it.

Kiko Zuniga 28:03
So so that’s the reason why we have both certifications level specialist for the import side. But in the forwarding side, it’s actually a lot more complex. The process to be honest, you know, you have four or five government agencies that are very involved with exports out of this country, Department of Defense, Department of Commerce, Department of Industry, industry securities, there’s another one in there somewhere. They are very complicated. And there’s no licensing requirements to be a freight forwarder. So we’re using the certified export specialists almost like like a licensing regime for exporters to be validated as knowing what to do and who you know how to comply with the regulations. Because it is, if if I were to look at the complexity of an import and an export, in my humble opinion, the export is way more complicated and has way more risk than the import side.

Lalo 29:00
Yeah, exactly. So the reason I asked that question is because we similar, I guess I was talking about earlier, I don’t want to be a broker, I don’t want to have a broker’s license, but I want to prove that I know so we refer them to CCS. And M in some occasions if they’re doing exporting CES, but the same same mass, but we get people asking them about logistics, I want to be a licensed freight forwarders like, Well, what exactly does that mean? I mean, you you create a you get a business license with the government to say I’m on an entity, you know, just like, just like the donut shop down the corner, right? I mean, all of us need a business license or you know, something saying that we’re doing business, but I basically tell them, you know, well, there’s the or what we say is there’s not a certification and I take that back. There’s not necessarily a license that you say, Okay, I’m a licensed freight forwarder you know, what you need to do is get educated and again, we do point them to first of all, we point to ncbfaa why because the organization itself lobbies and, and, you know, looks after the industry itself, right and just the information that comes out of it. But secondly, the certifications that you guys have. So yeah, the CES, it. Now I have better information as to what to better tell them, you know, but you just said, you know, so so that that helped. That helps us.

Kiko Zuniga 30:21
You’re in El Paso. Right. Right. So I would tell you as a I’m from Laredo, Texas, right. As an individual that operates on the southern border, I would tell you that if someone were to took or take a real hard look at the movement of goods out of the country into Mexico, through the southern border, I would say there’s 50% of them are not compliant.

Lalo 30:43
Really Wow. That high? If they

Kiko Zuniga 30:47
were to if they were to really enforce the rules the way they are today, I would venture to say be at least 50% that are not compliant. And I’m talking about, have they checked on routers entries? Have they checked on the defense of licenses? And there’s so many things that we just take for granted? And a simple thing like a screw or a nut? To me, it’s okay, it’s a screw on? How can that happen? require a permit or license. But some cases that will, if that same screw or that same nut can be used in the production of a aircraft carrier or an airplane that needs a license? I don’t think we’d look at any of that on the southern border.

Lalo 31:30
Right? And we’ve had several episodes where people say, Oh, I don’t export I just shipped to Canada or I don’t export I just moved to Mexico. Right we we we think I guess we were treating a little bit like the EU, right? I guess the EU you can you can go from country to country. Not necessarily doing entries. But so we treat as another state but no, no, that’s, that’s true. So

Cynthia Whittenberg 31:54
not in North America yet.

Lalo 31:59
No, but so that’s what the CCS I’m sorry, Nazi CSE. Yes. Helps, right. It just educate you and all aspects of what those exporting like licensing, screening. I mean, who knows who you’re dealing with, when you’re when you’re sending something that you just forget all these little things, right?

Kiko Zuniga 32:18
And who do you know, the final party that is going to receive the goods? Exactly? How many people know how to put an E, E and II number on a on a product? If there’s no licensing required to even get there? Right, right. So the other the other reason, I think that people don’t really realize it. So Customs and Border Protection is real good about notifying us when we’re doing things wrong. So we get a lot of notifications of errors, we see a lot of corrective action, prior to the big penalty. They’re investigating behind the scenes. And then two or three years into this process, they call you up and say you have been doing this all wrong. And here’s this seven or $8 million penalty that you’re gonna pay, you did it wrong. But you don’t see as many of them, right. You just see these big giant cases that come out. And they’re, I mean, they make the news because they’re so big. All right. Could be as active as on the import side. And if they have the staff to do it.

Lalo 33:24
Okay, right. Right. Wow. Okay. Yeah. I mean, gosh, we covered quite a bit here. I mean, I don’t know. If there’s anything else you y’all might want to add. I mean, I’ll let you guys close.

And that that, for me is very educational, what you just said, it helps. I feel for the audience. It’s a career development. Opportunity, let’s call it you know, because I may be sitting at my desk and doing importing for 1015 20 years, I don’t have a license. But I want to level up or tell my my employer, look, this is how valuable I am to you. Let me show you. And here’s my certification. And when they see that curriculum, I mean, I’m telling you, I saw that curriculum, we try to teach to that curriculum to help people along. I mean, that certify that CCS and CES. I mean, it’s like, it’s no, yeah, that’s that’s like, real, I mean, in depth stuff. I mean, you’re talking about 50 plus hours of, of content that you have to go through, right. I mean, it’s how long is it test? Or is it how many questions? Is it 80 questions or any questions? So 80 questions, and so you know, you’re really covering quite a bit on there. So I really, I really have seen that

but any closing remarks or anything that you got you all may have, you know, I’d be leaving it up to you all.

Cynthia Whittenberg 34:54
So, law law, I’ll say we’d be happy to come back again once they publish that final rule. Sure, if we haven’t like retired by

Lalo 35:10
Oh, yeah. Well, definitely want to have you back. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Cynthia Whittenberg 35:13
And we looking forward to seeing many of your listeners at global trade educational conference and July. The end.

Lalo 35:21
Maybe we should mention that. Yeah. Let’s say that there is a conference that the NCI puts on, that is exclusively for the NEI. It’s not an ncbfaa. Well, it is indirectly but it’s an NCI event called G tech, which is the global trade education conference. I hope I got that. Right. So and that’s this year. It’ll be in July in Oklahoma City. Correct.

Cynthia Whittenberg 35:44
July 31, August 1, first in Oklahoma City.

Kiko Zuniga 35:48
Yeah. So we look forward to having a lot of your listeners join us there. One, one last comment before we close Lalo you talk about careers, right. And a lot of people don’t don’t rule out working for the government, either. Customs and Border Protection is one of the larger employers in this country. If you had the knowledge of import, or export it as part of your background, whether it be through us or yourselves or whoever, uh, you’re a fantastic candidate to work for CBP, these people are always looking for people with that kind of knowledge to work within their own ranks. So a lot of people look at at I don’t want to, I don’t want to go into that, because I don’t want to get into law enforcement. You have to know about this stuff to be part of it. Right. Importing is is not easy, it’s complex. So you’re training the what we do here at the FBI, and other people providing that knowledge increases that ability for someone to get a career not just in with an importer in a compliance department or with a customs broker within their group, but with the government as well working for CBP or FDA or some of these other agencies that controlled international trade.

Lalo 37:05
Exactly, yeah. And Cynthia is a good example of that. I mean, she came from CBP. Broker now. Oh, now Oh, nice. Congratulations.

Kiko Zuniga 37:17
And in closing, just we just wish everybody a happy holiday season. Yes. With family and join us as well. Yeah, same

Lalo 37:27
here. And thank you all. For sure. We’ll be seeing you in 2023. With with that conference and any other cameras, because I see your guys at at other conferences, too. So you know, I love I love meeting and running into you also. Yeah, thank you all. And for sure, we’ll have you back. I mean, there’s always content that we could cover. So thank you very much for being on this episode. And for everyone looked them up, check our show notes. There’ll be links to detect there’ll be links to their profiles, to ncbfaa nei and all the certifications that they provide. i This is gonna be a long show notes, because there’s a lot that you guys offer. So well, we’ll go ahead and put those on there. And, and thank you again, thank you for coming on.